That's not even the same thing. At all. You keep deviating from the point Stormwolf made.
Explain the rivalry between John McClane and Hans Gruber. Or Indiana and Belloq. Which pivotal moment makes John or Indy feel the need to prove themselves? How do they need to be better? Better at what? What traditional expectations does society (or these villians) impose on the characters to make them feel this way? John's ultimate goal is rescuing people and killing the bad guy. Indy, an already world renown archeologist, is on the quest for discovery. How is this the same as a female warrior needing to prove she is as capable as the rest in order to raise her status in the world?
Imagine taking popcorn 80s action flicks and trying to extrapolate all of this nonsense from them
they're proving themselves to the audience. just like the bad guys prove themselves to the audience (either by showing how evil they are, how strong they are, how powerful they are). in the plot of it all it doesn't matter if mclaine sees them shoot a guy in the head, he knows they're bad. to the audience it shows they don't give a fuck and will murder anyone.
in prey predator proved himself to the audience by gutting a wolf, bear, and a bunch of experienced mother fuckers. girl proves herself to the audience as well by showing off her wits, building that boomerang axe and what not. audience also sees she's not strong or powerful even though she wants to be. she fails a few times. but she's smart. she learned well from her father and mother. simples.
what are you guys even talking about? did the girl kill predator by herself? nope.
could the girl stand a chance by herself against the predator? nope.
none of that is remotely conveyed in the movie, just the marketing.
in the movie this bitch is just a side attraction, trying to survive, sees a weakness and exploits it. typical woman. like... only woke bit in this movie is... u woman, you can't hunt. yes I can! I woman hunter! rawr! that's it.
which is... like... for the times the movie is set... it ain't woke.
It's very simple, but like always the 2 resident wall-of-text posters go off on all sorts of tangents (both Americans, interesting ), muddying the waters in their wake. For it to be the same thing, these would need to be analogous to both Prey and the movies being referenced:
Quote:
What traditional expectations does society (or these villians) impose on the characters to make them feel this way?
Quote:
How is this the same as a female warrior needing to prove she is as capable as the rest in order to raise her status in the world?
And they aren't. Using the same logic DX has presented, any movie where the protagonist has an antagonist or some sort of expectation can be included.
@Interinactive Explain the rivalry between John McClane and Hans Gruber. Or Indiana and Belloq.
Not sure if you dont get the hero's journey parts of them, or only get that 'different plots and action, so different altogether' by scraping only the surface of a movie by genre and scene settings to sum the arc of it.
And they aren't. Using the same logic DX has presented, any movie where the protagonist has an antagonist or some sort of expectation can be included. YES..that is the core last 'return' triad of the hero's journey circle...
Agree to disagree.
To me, hero's' journey circle, is hero's journey circle, regardless of what genitals they have, what race they are, or what mad libs to fill in the verbs of action and situational conflict of it with.
Interinactive wrote:
Imagine taking popcorn 80s action flicks and trying to extrapolate all of this nonsense from them
Imagine taking popcorn any decade action flicks and failing to realize they all follow the same mad libs 'action movie' triad. Just who, what, where, when, and why blanks are filled in different:P
All just the poem beowulf: They all have the same stages, just now simplified down for eye candy and bubblegum for the brain.
I'm not extrapolating anything. its a pretty well known and obvious triad pattern that hollywood uses with knowledge and awareness it is for decades. I'm just pointing out the very thing they themselves admit doing:
Spoiler:
Act One:
Call to Adventure
Refusal of the call/Reluctant Hero
Cross the Threshold into the Unknown
Mentors / Helpers
Act Two:
Trials
Revelation
Transformation
Growth of Character
Act Three:
Atonement
Return from the Unknown
Return to a Normal Life
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
I just find it odd you seem to want to find things in nuance of the movie and extrapolate them out into exposition about the movie and women/race/whatever out of it, or at least that how I take it: It has a female, and she overcomes so its fringe nod nod wink wink pandering to two minorities: women AND native americans. And that somehow once you scraped the barrel clean to find it, sort of ruined an otherwise OK film.
Then mock me for extrapolating nuance of the movie too: the overarc pattern it uses that they all do, and pointing out if it was a male lead none of these comments would have been made
It would have been: OK movie with meh protagonist.
Not: OK movie with meh female protagonist.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
It wasn't my argument, I even agreed with you. I made no other argument other than your examples are shit. And they are. Here's why. And now I will abandon the plane without a parachute. Adios, Satipo.
Woman has to prove herself = woman being oppressed all movies the same Woke Wke
If
Woman strong huntress leading the men around = blah blah Woke wOKe m,eh men being opressed.
If
all indians were woman = blah blah woKe WoKe
I dedicated two years of my life to creating a video game female character who doesn't piss and moan, but just gets on with it. That's a strong female character. Someone who's strength comes from their actions, not bemoaning men or the way things are. Which is why a lot of those other movies are so great - they focus on the experience.
You either are something or you're not. Always drawing attention to something or making reference to it is about as lame as it gets. I don't think this movie is a huge offender at all, but if you're going to start calling people out on this stuff ^^^^
You are not female, but male. So its story arc doesn't not appeal to you.
Male Cheesy Fantasy Action: Men aren't oppressed or talked down to. So Male Action Star Trope = What men want to be: Strong, big dick, pussy magnet that doesn't want to fight. But sure will kick your ass if you 'wake the beast' with a "I TOLD ya not to fuck with me!" girthy mentality.
Staple trope of every male action movie: I wish I was him.
Female Cheesy Fantasy Action: Prove to others you are strong, able to do things on your own, and equal to men. Be surrounded by men that are shown having weakness that thier dickwaving covered up, and rise above them all to do it without the machismo men need to peacock about.
Staple trope of every male action movie: I wish I was her.
Both appeal to what society has groomed us to be from past, history, the social ladder and gender roles of what the 'buck the system' version of our 'role' is.
Dont like it? Dont blame them movies, blame the last 300+ years of what has groomed each sex into what the general bellcurve of "Man that is the alpha of whatever it is we dream of, we rarely actually get to rooster strut that around now-a-days" is.
SO men its: Body like a greek god, with a 12" cock that can kick anyone's ass bare handed while looking badass doing it and has women throwing pussy at them.
Women: Prove to men we can be that too. And also fantasize about it, but need to frame it as we are doing it on our own.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Woman has to prove herself = woman being oppressed all movies the same Woke Wke
If
Woman strong huntress leading the men around = blah blah Woke wOKe m,eh men being opressed.
If
all indians were woman = blah blah woKe WoKe
All characters must be big dick man = happy.
Theeeere, keeping it simple ! That's pretty much it indeed - if the women are also big dick men, then they're fine
Any semi-realistic depiction of women before the 70's will always grind some gears ("It's pointless and doesn't add anything to the movie or women characters !") unless it's entirely ignored.
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Alternatively woman might just be part of the hunting crew without the woke shit of proving herself and being adviced to make food instead. Now that wasnt so hard was it?
It always amazes me how absolutely fucking stupid people become around this subject. I refuse to believe you guys miss the point this terribly. We've had this shit for what? 10 years or so and you still havent caught on. Speaks volumes. But thats not all. You list all these examples showing you cant even understand whats being talked about and reply some absolute horseshit missing the mark completely.
Eat some nuts to juice up those grey cells in you heads' they're either sleeping or dead
Peace out
Last edited by Stormwolf on Tue, 9th Aug 2022 17:02; edited 1 time in total
Comanche women were forbidden from hunting and were indeed left to do household and gathering duties..
That's what I was going to mention but you beat me to it.
The Comanche (and apache, and seminole nations..and a few others I cannot remember of the top of my head) was very role defined by sex and ages, both men and women. This would be a pretty accurate movie depiction of the situation. There is famous stories among tribes of the midwest of women being exiled or traded to other tribes that tried to infringe or join on the warriors duties or spoke to them with disrespect. In reality the fight she got into them with in the movie, she more than likely would have been traded to an enemy tribe for such disobedience if they wanted to go the route of unapologetically accurate.
Very very few women made it to warrior status. And those that did are legendary and subject of folklore for their struggle and extreme proficiency of it over men to even make it to being considered for a warrior. They had to be far and beyond the skill of the men, to be considered equal joining the warrior men. Like Buffalo Calf Road Woman, Also known as Brave Woman, that killed General Custer in the Battle of Little Big Horn. For every 1000 nameless male warriors there might be one female.
If they went your story route Storm, they would be slapping the Comanche in the face for sake of avoiding reality of how it was. So instead of just pissing off people that dont like hearing/tired of hearing how things was long ago, they would be insulting the people they are actually talking about.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
For the billionth time, nobody is confused about any of that. You are wasting your time writing about it. Or about how stories are composed. Or about the plight of people in the past and whatever other tangent you come up with. You continually ignore the actual point and rant on about something you clearly want to talk about instead. I mean, holy hell. How are you still not getting it? Try writing less for once and give reading / comprehending more of a chance.
It's possible to write a lot AND have reading comprehension. Not sure where you get they are antithesis to each other and to have one means forced lack of other.
You confuse my lack of agreeing with lack of comprehending. I understand exactly what you are saying. I just disagree. Not everyone that disagrees with you is because they lack the depth to understand your complex thesis. Its can be they read the thesis and find it lacking of substance. We are both doing it to each other here.
I simply disagree because I dont watch it caring about finding agendas, real or not, in movies looking for a thing that will ruining it for me by the very virtue of me being sensitive to detecting it.
It's no more a cliche old school gender role narrative than James Bond movies are for men. Don't see anyone bitching james bond plays out old worn out mid century men stereotypes that is unrealistic and beat to death.
if a fluff projected narrative ruins a direct to TV movie for you. Not sure how to help you over that to just enjoy a 3-4 month talked about bubblegum action flick movie before it's relegated to fans, IMBD and wiki pages as a movie that was made.
I still stand by my stance if Alien/Aliens was made today, someone would bark about how the latina character (Vasquez) was a woke nod to mexican women and manly LGBTQ females (someone would), and ripley was a woke agenda of strong women dont need men, and all the men died first being incompetent, as a example of the sub narrative metaphor they was pushing. Since the first 1/2 of the movie was men dying that didn't listen to ripley because 'silly woman and her ideas' and doing what they want and dying because of it. [the airlock scene, the landing leg scene, the escape pod scene, etc]. Not to mention the whole little girl and ripley arc is a BIG metaphor for motherly protection and matriarchy that its a woman's instinct and role to protect the children (the men didn't really care).
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Wed, 10th Aug 2022 00:20; edited 1 time in total
I will pay someone $20 if they can do the mental gymnastics to figure out how me calling his examples shit (while agreeing with him) somehow ends up with him telling me about Alien LGBTQ females
You want my paypal so you can send it before I do that? Not often someone offers to pay me to explain how I got to a talking point I did. (and who better to tell you how they did it, than the person that did it?)
I feel you are the type to read romeo and juliet and get the jist: Two kids wanna fuck, they cant so they kill themselves, how lame and teen angst filled. That's the point of the story right?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
but... that is the point of Romeo and Juliet
they wanna fuck.
they can't cause they're of different competitive houses.
so they can't find true love that's legal.
so they kill themselves because they're kids and don't know any better.
in those times people didn't leave their cities/villages.
That's the situation romeo and juliet are in yes.
The motif and statement of WHY they had to is the point of the play mixed of multiple critiques of the time period: Silly laws about how you can love, happenstance of chance and fate being dictated by social etiquette. Romeo using metaphors of sins vs saints to have to 'encode' his message without losing grace to the houses if uncovered. The fragility of time and the enviable realization that even if life is short, it seems eternally long while yearning.
It's like saying Hamlet is a biopic about a love stricken Prince with a clown skull fetish.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Juliet was one house
romeo was another house
houses hated eachother
kids loved eachother
can't be together
don't believe in loving others after they found true love
so no love in their future
let's kill eachother, and then come back while they think we're dead and we can be together forever! lol.
it's a typical teenage drama. you're reading too much into it. it's a story as old as time. smarter people run away together. kids can't think that far ahead. it's not that deep. it's teenage bs. there's no metaphor in it for anything other than two kids wanting to fuck, but their parents hate eachother, so they can't be together because they don't understand grown ups. like... huh? is that what they teach in English lit? someone's interpretation of the play?
same can be said street car named desire is just a hallucination of the feminist man-hating sister that comes to visit, and all the violence that Stanley is responsible for happens in her head. told from her perspective.
also they married each other.
he killed cousin
ran away
she faked death to get him back (typical teenage bs)
he didn't know was fake cause thinking with his dick and can't read past come back to me or I dieeeeee
kills himself
she sees him dead
kills herself.
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), muddying the waters in their wake. For it to be the same thing, these would need to be analogous to both Prey and the movies being referenced:
That's pretty much it indeed - if the women are also big dick men, then they're fine 
