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 Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 08:52 Post subject: |
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| Kezmark wrote: | | I mean what the fuck? How is it so hard to innovate for a fucking big dev? It isn't, at all, since most of the innovation comes from indie devs, and if one guy can come up with something new and interesting then a big development team should be able |
Innovation comes in scales. From indie to AAA+. Do you know the definition of innovation? It's the following:
FAIL, FAIL, CHANGE, FAIL, FAIL, CHANGE, FAIL, FAIL, CHANGE, PERHAPS SUCCEED.
Indies have NOTHING to lose trying to innovate in much, MUCH smaller projects and scale. BUT(!) huge corporations / publishers have absolutely NO DISPOSITION TO INNOVATE due to high risks (it's all in numbers for them). We all know that these big companies creating games are managed by BUSINESS MEN, number crunchers, and NOT gamers or visionaries.
_
I had low (to no) expectations about D4. And I personalty liked what I played because of the world, artistic style (not UI) and atmosphere. And I will probably buy it, play the campaign once or twice and... that's it.
In today's age it's kinda pointless to look for innovation here. It might come, it might not. If it does, good for you/us, if it doesn't, look for something else to appreciate. If there's nothing to appreciate, then just move on. |
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 09:07 Post subject: |
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It wasn't always that way, Dead Space is an RE ripoff but a good one, arguably a risky project, ME1 was a typical bioware Sci RPG arguably a risky project.
D1, D2 created and innovated on a gaming genre.
Doom 2, Doom 3, Quake 1-2-3, HL1, HL2 innovated on a genre.
Even warcraft 1-2 and SC innovated within the genre introducing RPG and story telling to RTS.
Left for dead and Portal innovated within their genre when FPS was saturated with same same titles.
None of these were failures, most are regarded as some of the best games ever released. I think you need to bring improvements to the table, and those improvements shouldn't be double/triple charging me and buying blue hair and glasses from the cosmetic shop.
what is the argument here anyway, put up and shut-up with crap AAA games? 
Last edited by AmpegV4 on Thu, 30th Mar 2023 09:15; edited 1 time in total
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Nodrim
Posts: 9602
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 09:10 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 10:53 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | | what is the argument here anyway, put up and shut-up with crap AAA games? |
Of course not. What made you assume such an ass conclusion?
I thought it's obvious:
Innovation is feckingly incredibly hard to pull.
And anyone working in a creative environment (can include myself here) will understand much better this concept. |
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 11:07 Post subject: |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 12:23 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |
What can it add? Add too much, it's not 'Diablo' and falls under another genre. Add too little and people are bored of the same old. Must be a nightmare making these games  |
No sorry didnt mean it they needed to add more. Just I have played a dozen games that are copies/clones of it over 20 years and the fun of that type of hack and slash has faded for me.
Everyone has a game type or types they will never grow tired of, some this may be it, for me mine is in other places is all.
I agree they add too much, some people will complain it's not the old game (New coke vs old coke). Add too little and it's not enough to drag back old players looking for more, and not enough and get glossed over by returning players as some new tiny feature not worth talking about.
And change that works to add new things that make players come back may not even be what I would like anyway, so I dont expect them to change to appeal to people/players like me.
It could be like FPS games: How do we make quake, original battlefield, and unreal more innovative.
So they try things, fail, then succeed, fail, succeed...until they have Call of Duty and the new Battlefields. Both of which changed a LOT. And Neither of I want to play despite not being the 'same old same old' arena shooter type anymore.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 14:09 Post subject: |
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| Vikerness wrote: | Just as an example, because every other arpg almost gets a free pass, while blizzard games get roasted like crazy. Thats what is not fair if you ask me  |
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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DaLexy
Posts: 3042
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 16:56 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 13866
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 30th Mar 2023 18:27 Post subject: |
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| AmpegV4 wrote: | It wasn't always that way, Dead Space is an RE ripoff but a good one, arguably a risky project, ME1 was a typical bioware Sci RPG arguably a risky project.
D1, D2 created and innovated on a gaming genre. |
d1 innovated nothing. it SIMPLIFIED everything in crpgs thus creating "action rpg" genre. rpg fans were bashing it cuz it was to simplistic in every way, literally every way. suddenly it became a thing cuz it was more mainstream than any nerdy rpg with turns, tons of stats and other crap that appealed for hardcore nerds and paper rpg fans. devs literally said it need to be that simple that their mothers could pick it up and play (and unsuprisngly many girls who usually played girl shit like sims enjoyed diablo lol)
d2 innovated nothing, it elaborated on that simple formula while also being waaay simpler than any other rpgs. d3 did exactly the same thing but lost the dark gothic atmosphere unfortunately, also simplified combat even more, made it gamepad friendly, more arcade/gauntlet like and so on. also people overestimate it as fuck, and i put hundreds of yours in d2 and d2:r, i know my shit. expansion added few mechanics, fixed itemization a bit, brought depth via synergies and so on, barebone d2 wasnt either complex or that amazing mechanics wise.
d4 combines both worlds, brings back the mood of d1-d2, skipps cartoony asthetics, it mixes combat and mechanics from d2/d3 along with borrowing from other modern arpgs, skips useless lobby with floods of spam chat and introduces instance based stuff with fluidly throwing in some players sparkingly here and there, almost like in dark souls (diablo devs orignaly wanted to make d4 more like dark action tpp ala souls like but skipped the idea). also adds open world with other activities (hopefully more) with ~120 or smth dungeons (in beta there were like 5-6 settings maybe)
"We're different, bud. Remember that"
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W123
Posts: 2520
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2023 05:20 Post subject: |
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eh? d2 added skill the tree and the whole loot/slot machine/run the same content over and over again meta of current hack and slash rpgs basically.
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2023 09:36 Post subject: |
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you missed the point completely, again lol. you were talking about innovation in context of d4, blizz almost never really innovates, they take whats good and simplify it while tweaking it to be more approachable and/or better, and thats completely fine, that what d1 was - simplified regular crpg to the point that people called it ACTION RPG not cuz it invented new genre but it was meant like a slur - that real rpg fans played real crpgs and dumbfucks played simplified kids clicky game aka diablo 1. also was turn based at start and original creator wanted to keep it that way but most of the staff was on real-time side, they checked it and never locked back, well know d1 trivia. how can you say it had nothing to do with crpgs rotfl.
d2 expanded on that, d3 did the same, d4 does the same. its diablo1/2/3, mixed with elden ring/zelda like map, combined with open world mechanics, springled with lite-mmo stuff, and its fucking great, doesnt need to reinvent the wheel or make excel simulator like poe or other crappy hns which everyone will forget in 3 months
"We're different, bud. Remember that"
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2023 10:22 Post subject: |
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Please link the game you think played like Diablo 1 in 1997.
Provide 1 example of a mechanical system in D3 that positively added/expanded more depth to something that D2 had? <- crazy that I can't think of 1 single thing.
D4: I see as a damage control release hence the continual 'more inspired by d2'. as well as copy pasting a lot of D2 in it classes, skills, the aesthetic which i actually don't think is that different to D3. MMO's are somewhat popular and a great avenue for continual profits, no brainer in this scenario I just really don't like them.
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| Posted: Sat, 1st Apr 2023 10:44 Post subject: |
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you clearly arent responding to the stuff i wrote previously lol, even to the stuff YOU wrote. if taking established genre, throwing 3/4 out of it, making it simpler for simpler gameplay and easier approach for casual people/even non-gamers aslo not being first to do this, is huige innovation to you then so be it rotfl, i can be bothered anymore discussing that.
u dont remember what sentiment about d1 was in rpgs communities and rpg corners in gaming press, but i do. dragon slayer played like diablo in 84, gauntlet played like d1 in 85, 86, 87 etc, even nes/snes/gb era had games in similar formula. ure acting like there wasnt simple actiony rpgs before d1 lol.
point is = blizz wasnt and isnt INNOVATIVE company and it doesnt need to be, same with d4. great games dont need to reinvent the wheel.
"We're different, bud. Remember that"
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| Posted: Wed, 5th Apr 2023 21:26 Post subject: |
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Nodrim
Posts: 9602
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Apr 2023 11:47 Post subject: |
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| blackeyedboy wrote: | | https://youtu.be/aGDizGfd5KQ |
Damn, she taking up half the thumbnail
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Thu, 6th Apr 2023 11:56 Post subject: |
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Nodrim
Posts: 9602
Location: Romania
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briangw
Posts: 1754
Location: Warren, MN
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Apr 2023 15:49 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Apr 2023 18:29 Post subject: |
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There will definitely be random generated dungeons. The themes will probably be the same though
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Apr 2023 09:15 Post subject: |
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i want people with passion making randomizing shit, not fake ass bitches using cliche buzzwords recylcing their crappy dungeons they think are the shit, when they are massive turds and everyone already called em out on their fancy dungeon mechanics
bald poe guy just destroys all the blizz payed actors when he speaks , he oozes passion at every silable
heck have a fucking AI make them , it be better then what they currently have for dungeon mechanics
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Apr 2023 09:22 Post subject: |
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| PickupArtist wrote: | i want people with passion making randomizing shit, not fake ass bitches using cliche buzzwords recylcing their crappy dungeons they think are the shit, when they are massive turds and everyone already called em out on their fancy dungeon mechanics
bald poe guy just destroys all the blizz payed actors when he speaks , he oozes passion at every silable
heck have a fucking AI make them , it be better then what they currently have for dungeon mechanics |
ok, so you basically dont have any idea what youre talking about "randomized shit, ai shit, payed actors, poe guy better". thanks for clarifying
"We're different, bud. Remember that"
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) Go play neocore games. They’re all inovative. Tell me how long they last. And how the endgame is 
