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-=Cartoon=-
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Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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 Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 17:34 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | | compubrain3000 wrote: | | mark322 wrote: |
Believing in god won't change your destiny. Everyone of us will rot in the end. |
Maybe i'm being naive, but i'd like to believe that there is something more beyond the grave. I just can't comprehend the idea that my life is simply a quirk of evolution. |
Most people would like to believe that.. but there aint no point in wasting half your life by practising what some nut wrote in a book "Just in case"
If there is a afterlife im sure following a guide that some nutcase wrote is not gonna get u there any faster.
Can you imagine today if som eone said "LOL LOOK MY NAME IS JEBUS AND I CAME TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS" or *Insert 1000 other crap things here that people followed in history*
They would be put away in a mental hospital |
First of all, this "nut" happens to be the most influencial person in human history.
Secondly, this "book" is the most advanced and cleverly crafted piece of literature in the arabic language and most propably any language.
The problem with society today is that people think humans have reached the pinnacle of knowledge, yet no one can provide a plausible answer for this simplest of questions: What are we?
Can anyone give me a definite answer for this simple question? |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 17:52 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: |
The problem with society today is that people think humans have reached the pinnacle of knowledge, yet no one can provide a plausible answer for this simplest of questions: What are we? |
Its allready have been answered read the books or go to school or smth...
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 17:53 Post subject: |
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An accident. A mistake that evolved into life.
Nothing more that that.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 17:59 Post subject: |
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| YourGod wrote: | An accident. A mistake that evolved into life.
Nothing more that that. |
A mistake of what? Nature? What is nature?
The "big bang" theory? So what was there before the "big bang"? Where did this universe come from?
Why can't we create life with all the science and technology we have? Surely it can't be that hard if it was simply an "accident". |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:05 Post subject: |
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Where did your god come from? Where did you gods god com from?????????????????
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:19 Post subject: |
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| YourGod wrote: | | Where did your god come from? Where did you gods god com from????????????????? |
I don't claim to know, all i know is that this universe is no accident. |
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Parallax_
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Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:22 Post subject: |
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Weee, this topic quickly sidetracked from religion into existensialism 
So how can you tell that the universe was no accident, compubrain?
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:22 Post subject: |
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| Freakness wrote: | | compubrain3000 wrote: |
The problem with society today is that people think humans have reached the pinnacle of knowledge, yet no one can provide a plausible answer for this simplest of questions: What are we? |
Its allready have been answered read the books or go to school or smth... |
Believe me, no one has found an answer to this question. We don't even understand how are physical bodies work  |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:28 Post subject: |
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We all will have to wait till we are dead, and then if there is nothing after death, then nobody will ever know the answer the to big question.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:31 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | Weee, this topic quickly sidetracked from religion into existensialism
So how can you tell that the universe was no accident, compubrain? |
This is the Big Bang theory,
| Quote: | The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.
In 1927, the Belgian priest Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of a primeval atom. His proposal came after observing the red shift in distant nebulas by astronomers to a model of the universe based on relativity. Years later, Edwin Hubble found experimental evidence to help justify Lemaître's theory. He found that distant galaxies in every direction are going away from us with speeds proportional to their distance.
The big bang was initially suggested because it explains why distant galaxies are traveling away from us at great speeds. The theory also predicts the existence of cosmic background radiation (the glow left over from the explosion itself). The Big Bang Theory received its strongest confirmation when this radiation was discovered in 1964 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who later won the Nobel Prize for this discovery.
Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted, it probably will never be proved; consequentially, leaving a number of tough, unanswered questions. |
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html
Even knowing it can never be proven, it still has one big flaw, it talks about a "primeval atom" from which the universe was created. The question is, where did this "primeval atom" come from? |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:35 Post subject: |
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| YourGod wrote: | | We all will have to wait till we are dead, and then if there is nothing after death, then nobody will ever know the answer the to big question. |
How do you know that there is nothing after death? Have you been dead before? Has anyone scientifically proven that there is nothing after death? Is your theory of "nothing after death" any more credible than the theory of Heaven and Hell? If so, prove it. |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:38 Post subject: |
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| YourGod wrote: | | Where did your god come from? Where did you gods god com from????????????????? |
Here is a theory.
| Quote: |
The spirit world may evolve naturally from the vacuum.
In order to explain the fine-tuning of physical constants, some cosmologists proposed that the whole universe (bulk universe) may contain an astronomical number of sub-universes (braneworlds). Our braneworld just happened to have the right physical constants. In a previous article, we mentioned that a more likely scenario is that a spirit world first appeared in the bulk universe. The intelligent life (God) in this spirit world then created our braneworld. This scenario, however, raises a question: if God created us, who created God? how did the spirit world come to exist?
The spirit world we are referring to is an invisible world in the bulk universe (possibly having ten spatial dimensions). It should obey the physical laws that apply to the higher dimensional world. The spirit world should also be made up of matter. However, the properties of its matter are entirely different from ours. They cannot be seen by light or other electromagnetic waves (why?). Its matter should also possess energy as given by the Einstein's equation. Then, how could energy be created from vacuum? Would it violate the energy conservation law?
The matter could be created from vacuum without violating any physical law. The key is the graviton which possesses negative energy. Although our braneworld contains billions of stars with huge amount of positive matter energy, the total energy is much smaller (or even zero) because the negative gravitational energy may cancel the positive matter energy. According to the string theory, the graviton is a closed-string particle which may go anywhere in the bulk universe. Therefore, the spirit world must also have gravitons.
Even if the total energy is not zero, matter could still be created naturally - but only for a very short time. According to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, we cannot determine energy and time precisely. Therefore, it is possible for a group of particles with non-zero total energy appear naturally and then disappear within a short time. The more the total energy is created, the shorter the lifetime. This process is known as the quantum fluctuation.
In the past several decades, cosmologists have been trying to explain the origin of our braneworld from vacuum. Since quantum fluctuation is the only natural process that may create energy from vacuum, all contemporary models for the origin of our braneworld involve quantum fluctuation. However, since our braneworld started with a gigantic Big Bang, it is necessary to assume the creation of a huge amount of energy that seems unlikely to arise from a natural quantum fluctuation.
We do not know the initial condition of the bulk universe. The most natural assumption is that it began with an empty space. That is, before any matter was created, the bulk universe contained only vacuum governed by physical laws. Then, quantum fluctuation would certainly produce some kind of particles with small energy. Although the lifetime of these particles is short, they may decay into other types of particles or interact with each other to form stable particles during their lifetime. The energy of the stable particles may come from their gravitational interaction carried by gravitons. As time proceeded, some structures equivalent to our atoms could be formed. Eventually, a habitable environment and life could be developed. Since the bulk universe is eternal, there was plenty of time for an intelligent life to evolve from tiny particles.
The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a closed system can never decrease. The entropy is a measure of disorder. More order means less entropy. Then, where did the order come from? Does the evolution process violate the second law of thermodynamics?
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http://www.web-books.com/GoodPost/Articles/OriginOfGod.htm
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 18:43 Post subject: |
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I voted no. Not becasue i dont beleve in the core values of religion, but i do not beleve in organized religion. To me, organized religion has been the root casue of many of are worlds conflicts. And what for?
Basically alot of religion speaks the same values.
Ie. Treat other how you want to be treated. Dont steal. Dont lie. Dont fuck your nabours wife/ cheat on your wife. etc.
The core values of religion are great, and should serve as good rules to live your life by. But sadly i feel organized religions have really strayed from this. And are more rapped up in elitism BS. One comment i read said how he cant beleve that more of us are not religious, and good, more room in heaven for him. This is the exact reason i dislike organized religion. Just becasue your one religion, or beleif structure, doesnt mean that your better than anyone else that leads a good, moral, and productive life. Heck a JW doesnt beleve any of us will be "Saved" , only JWs; becasue they are god, or jehovas children.
Religion came about to make us civil to each other, and your spose. It was not meant as a belief or worship stucture. Heck even the bible says that we should not build temples to worship etc.
I beleve in a creator, not the bibles version. But a more scientific aproach. Something started it all, in the very begining; you know the spark that started the universe. Single celled organisms, evolution ........
But to each his own, becasue some people need to beleve so bad, a need religion to make them feel better than others..... Alot of people are week minded.
Sorry Yourgod, But a religion question cannot, and will not be answered with a simple yes or no; its impossible.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 19:19 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: |
Sorry Yourgod, But a religion question cannot, and will not be answered with a simple yes or no; its impossible. |
I agree. I answered no but yet I have my own beliefs. There is no middle ground in the question.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 19:33 Post subject: |
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I am atheist but i think religions should exist.
Because i hear people saying '' if there wasn't a hell below i'd rape that woman and stole this car '' etc . They are not afraid of jail , they are only afraid of hell.
Well , i talked jesus about that and he is very proud of people who are only afraid of hell(!)
Fucking close minded idiots...
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:32 Post subject: |
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| IpwnU wrote: | I am atheist but i think religions should exist.
Because i hear people saying '' if there wasn't a hell below i'd rape that woman and stole this car '' etc . They are not afraid of jail , they are only afraid of hell.
Well , i talked jesus about that and he is very proud of people who are only afraid of hell(!)
Fucking close minded idiots... |
They actually have a very good point, without religion there is no morality. |
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Parallax_
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Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:34 Post subject: |
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How do you figure that? I am not religious and I have morale
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:34 Post subject: |
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| IpwnU wrote: | I am atheist but i think religions should exist.
Because i hear people saying '' if there wasn't a hell below i'd rape that woman and stole this car '' etc . They are not afraid of jail , they are only afraid of hell.
Well , i talked jesus about that and he is very proud of people who are only afraid of hell(!)
Fucking close minded idiots... |
I'm more like "if my ass wouldn't be kicked so hard by the police" other than afraid of going to hell.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:44 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | How do you figure that? I am not religious and I have morale |
You still live in a world where the absolute majority are religious (ie. follow a religion), i'm saying that in a world without any religions, there will be no morality. |
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Parallax_
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:46 Post subject: |
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I agree to disagree. I if you removed religion from society today you would still have structure, laws, and most people would have morality, just like it is today.
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:52 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | I agree to disagree. I if you removed religion from society today you would still have structure, laws, and most people would have morality, just like it is today. |
The reason we have religion today was becasue we lacked structure and morality. With out it, we would still be barbarians. But i agree that now, in this day and age; organized religion serves little purpose.
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Parallax_
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 20:59 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: | | The reason we have religion today was becasue we lacked structure and morality. With out it, we would still be barbarians. But i agree that now, in this day and age; organized religion serves little purpose. |
I believe society formed both structure and morality by itself because there was a need for it, not because some hocuspocus organization known as the Church gathered a lot of scriptures in the ancient days and called it the Bible.
But of course, any of the reasons for that is really only speculation.
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:16 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: | | Parallax_ wrote: | | I agree to disagree. I if you removed religion from society today you would still have structure, laws, and most people would have morality, just like it is today. |
The reason we have religion today was becasue we lacked structure and morality. With out it, we would still be barbarians. But i agree that now, in this day and age; organized religion serves little purpose. |
What makes you think that if religion is removed, the structure and morality will remain intact?
You assume that humans have evolved beyond the need for religion, but have they really?
Are humans today that much different from the humans that lived before? |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:24 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | Bigperm wrote: | | The reason we have religion today was becasue we lacked structure and morality. With out it, we would still be barbarians. But i agree that now, in this day and age; organized religion serves little purpose. |
I believe society formed both structure and morality by itself because there was a need for it, not because some hocuspocus organization known as the Church gathered a lot of scriptures in the ancient days and called it the Bible.
But of course, any of the reasons for that is really only speculation. |
Religion has been around since the earliest days of mankind. The Egyptians had their religion, so did the Greeks, so did the Romans. The world has always known religion, the world has always needed religion. I don't think we're any different. |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:40 Post subject: |
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Humans evolve. Let's get out of the past.
86% R infidels on this forum................................
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Parallax_
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:41 Post subject: |
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You say the world has always needed religion, but it has always been individuals who has craved for something to believe in beyond their own existence. This has changed in the later centuries because of the introduction of science into society. Individuals today learn about morality from society itself (be it their parents, friends, other people, etc), not from religion - that is why I believe morality and other factors will not change if you remove religion.
Why do you believe religion might be the cause of morality and structure because it has been around for a long time? Surely society itself has existed as long as religion, if not longer.
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nouseforaname
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:48 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 28th Jul 2006 21:52 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | You say the world has always needed religion, but it has always been individuals who has craved for something to believe in beyond their own existence. This has changed in the later centuries because of the introduction of science into society. Individuals today learn about morality from society itself (be it their parents, friends, other people, etc), not from religion - that is why I believe morality and other factors will not change if you remove religion.
Why do you believe religion might be the cause of morality and structure because it has been around for a long time? Surely society itself has existed as long as religion, if not longer. |
But aren't western societies built on Christian values? The core ethical system is based on the Christian religion, aren't they? |
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wtf
