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 Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 20:37 Post subject: |
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| Hfric wrote: | | REMEBER psx 1 - had better graphic the pc 2 years later PC owned psx , the same will be with xbox360 when we get directx 10 and vista |
true pc can be as good as xbox360 today but devalopers dont give a f*ck about pc users....just wait and see what version of test drive unlimited pc users will get....but when 360 and ps3 gets outdated then we will get half life 3 or maybe even 4 and have a kickass graphics.....and then it will not run on 360 or the ps3
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 20:54 Post subject: |
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| Bigperm wrote: |
Oh, can it you PC fanboy. FFS i have a killer gaming rig, and a 360. And this plays and looks way better on the 360. How fucking hard is that to understand. And yes a mouse and keyboard are good for "Certain games" , but if you bothered to even try the demo before spouting all this fanboy bullshit (That has been argued to death over the past, what 5 years) you would realize that this game was designed with a gamepad in mind. And who cares what forum this is; if im was talking about it in consoles i would expect people to say how the Pc version compares. FFS, are you new to gaming forums or something. Using arguments that have been done to death, in every gaming forum on the net.
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Hey Assface !! I beat the demo several times otherwise I wouldnt talk about the game ! Im pretty sure you dont even have a good rig, this looks wonderfull on my single 7800 GTX what would it be with 2 ?. What makes you say this was designed for consoles apart from the only lame thing which is auto locking ? ANY game that has aiming and shooting works 100000 X better with a mouse and like you said this has been known since the ice age and this game has aiming and firing altho not an FPS its A TPS, not only that but in a vehicle I can control the camera with the mouse and put ANY fucking angle I want. FUCK your kiddie ass and your gamepad !! and if im the noob at posting on forums, at least I know that this is the PC GAMES forum and not console faggot go back to the kids forum!!!
Last edited by Tr1ples1xer on Fri, 25th Aug 2006 20:59; edited 2 times in total
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damnet
Posts: 92
Location: brasil
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 20:57 Post subject: |
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I like the game very much, and all the gfx whores saying that the graphics suck just shut up please, just look at the scope of the damn game, that island is just fuckin huge, and there are no loading times whatsoever, do the math...l
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 20:58 Post subject: |
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It doesn't fragging matter on what you play on, as long as your happy....no? Me personally like PC cause I can fiddle with files, watch Porn without my wife seeing me and what have you. I am nevertheless buying a PS3 for Xmas as my son DEMANDS it! What a life hey. I am sure I will struggle with the god dam game pad around boxing day....mark my words.
Last edited by CaptainCox on Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:00; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:03 Post subject: |
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pc is more for nerds who know what thier doing while consoles are for people who just wanna pick up a controller and play.
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:04 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Tr1ples1xer wrote: | | Bigperm wrote: |
Oh, can it you PC fanboy. FFS i have a killer gaming rig, and a 360. And this plays and looks way better on the 360. How fucking hard is that to understand. And yes a mouse and keyboard are good for "Certain games" , but if you bothered to even try the demo before spouting all this fanboy bullshit (That has been argued to death over the past, what 5 years) you would realize that this game was designed with a gamepad in mind. And who cares what forum this is; if im was talking about it in consoles i would expect people to say how the Pc version compares. FFS, are you new to gaming forums or something. Using arguments that have been done to death, in every gaming forum on the net.
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Hey Assface !! I beat the demo several times otherwise I wouldnt talk about the game ! Im pretty sure you dont even have a good rig, this looks wonderfull on my single 7800 GTX what would it be with 2 ?. What makes you say this was designed for consoles apart from the only lame thing which is auto locking ? ANY game that has aiming and shooting works 100000 X better with a mouse and like you said this has been known since the ice age and this game has aiming and firing altho not an FPS its A TPS, not only that but in a vehicle I can control the camera with the mouse and put ANY fucking angle I want. FUCK your kiddie ass and your gamepad !! and if im the noob at posting on forums, at least I know that this is the PC GAMES forum and not console faggot go back to the kids forum Tr1ples1xer
!!! |
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Last edited by demonson360 on Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:06; edited 1 time in total
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mYslead
Posts: 738
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:06 Post subject: |
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| copecowboy wrote: | | pc is more for nerds who know what thier doing while consoles are for people who just wanna pick up a controller and play. |
when I play videogames on PC, i just double click on the icon on my desktop and pick up my keyboard / controller and play.
even my grand mother could do that.
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:06 Post subject: |
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| copecowboy wrote: | | pc is more for nerds who know what thier doing while consoles are for people who just wanna pick up a controller and play. |
That's actually not far off the mark. I just love to order new hardware online and wait for those goodies to come with the post. Then I lock my self up and just gore while i am inserting new GPUs and HDs....WOW WHAT A FEELING THAT IS!!!!!!!
Me, nerd ?, HELL YEA!!!!! |
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:11 Post subject: |
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Karmeck
Posts: 3345
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 21:50 Post subject: |
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| Baleur wrote: | Fuck i have to say, the driving and general controls and gfx are super much better in the 360 version. It actually feels good to drive the cars there. Fuck, guess i gotta spend $60 on another game then  |
mod that shit
| Radamez wrote: | Well I'm happy with how it looks on my machine, and I have a USB>PS2 adapter so the controls will be no problem either  |
if the final is like the demo then yes it will because theres no option for gamepads. other than usnig a key mapper. |
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 22:09 Post subject: |
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IcedFreon, you are mixing apples with bananas;
PhysX is not shit at all. Its mediums are; the card from AEGIA and from BFG are shit indeed.
They created something big that has to fit within a PCI slot which is pretty ridiculous.
ATI's dual processing units on the same card will greatly improve physics since it will bear one PPU and one GPU.
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 22:15 Post subject: |
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| Malveous wrote: | IcedFreon, you are mixing apples with bananas;
PhysX is not shit at all. Its mediums are; the card from AEGIA and from BFG are shit indeed.
They created something big that has to fit within a PCI slot which is pretty ridiculous.
ATI's dual processing units on the same card will greatly improve physics since it will bear one PPU and one GPU. |
lol Physx is BY Ageia.
and Agiea didnt make a card, Asus and BFG did. and ATi isnt using physx theyre using the Havok engine.
so yes, PhysX is shit. the cards been out for a few months now and still only 3 games that are worthwhile even support it. not to mention the fact that it actually slows down the games i nsome cases. so again, shit. now if youre saying that the use of physics themselves arent shit then i agree with you, but as of now, anything with the brandname PhysX on it, is shit. |
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 23:52 Post subject: |
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| Malveous wrote: | However, the PS3 being the strongest Next-Gen console does remain a pain in the ass to work on.
Working on the dbox of the 360 has always been easy, last year it was a G5 and now its the full console with emulated drives yet this thing sticks to a PC.
With the PS3, it is quite far from a PC and usually the first "dbox" is just a set of regulations and it evolves as they develop it up until its release where we will probably get a fullscale ps3 with emulated drives. Its architecture remains the most unique hence the hardest to work with.
On the other hand, the PS3 has two excellent advantage; an integrated hard drive and a blue ray drive meaning we don't have to worry when developing which is the opposite with the 360; no hd and no hard drive. |
the ps3 isnt the most powerful console. Its has certain raw power advantages but when it comes to games it is bottlenecked. Because of the hardware design of the 360 it can do more with less. Like i posted in the console forums here's a post from a guy who actually does know what he's talking about.
"Hello all, I've been following this discussion for quite some time now, im just clearing things up which people seem no to understand that sony is again overhyping, but this time theyve done well to hide it.and its just a matter of time before it gets released.
First a bit on my background. I have done an education for computer sciences with a major in 3D graphics development, and I am now working for my PhD. Since this is so, I have worked quite a bit with hardware in terms of programming and graphics creation
Let me warn all of you, sony is overhyping it's product once again, like they have done before. And I am amazed to see how biased several of the webpages and magazines are. They all try to downsize Xeon and Xenon technology, but with the arguments and testcases that most of these sources come up with , Cell and RSX will often come out way worse, yet that's a thing they do not show us of course.
Many people don't seem to grasp that ATI's Xenon truly is a revolution in terms of pipeline architecture. Unlike the RSX the Xenon is truly next gen, Xenon revolutionizes powermanagement within it's core, so it doesn't need all the mhz's to create a massive output.
The unified shader architecture also gives developers way more playground, and the Xbox 360 will certainly be able to incorperate more ways of instruction for creating and rendering the graphics on screen. The RSX on the other hand will have it's massive clockspeed, but it will use it in a less efficient way.
Anyway, with the specs of both consoles now fully released it is possible to do a REAL TIME comparinson of the 2 consoles,your about to see what most of the sony representetives didnt want you to see.
Comparing these two GPU's is like comparing Apples to Banana's. RSX on paper will have certain advantages over Xenon, and Xenon will have certain advantages over RSX.
There is the element of co-operation with the CPU we also have to consider.
Ok, lets put up the specs for the RSX as published.
- 550 Mhz
- 51 billion dot products/sec count's for total system performance
- 300 Million Transistors
- 136 shader operations per clock
good now that's for the facts as presented to us, we have 550 MHz of power to work with
The Cell and the RSX together are capable to produce 51 billion dot products. I think it is interesting to take a closer look at this claim especially, since I worked with this bit while the specs of both consoles first became public, the important thing is that mnay people just compare the seperate peices of each console to PS fanboys and PS3 no-it-alls it will be music to there ears, but to us who know about comoputers and know how to compare them,ill tell you one thing, sony has lost alot of its credibility .
Anyway. Since the Cell will have 7 DSP's all being able to do a dot product per cycle, we have some numbers to work with, we can put the numbers in a small calculation.
7DSP * 3.2(ghz) = 22.4 billion dot products/sec for the CPU
since we had 51 billion in total , we will have to substract them to know what is left for the GPU.
51 - 22.4 = 28.6 Billion dot products
When you devide this number to the clockspeed of the GPU you will get 52 ALU operations per clock as they are called.
Now as stated before, the RSX's architecture is not that different from the GeForce 6800 and so it will use Vector4 standards. Since ATI's architecture is done with Vector5s it will handle the material a bit different. Now there also the Multiply Add instructions, in short MADD instructions to work with. In plain English MADD means that the vector graphic will be recalculated to it's precise position, and the instruction always sort of double checks before we get output, that's why we have throw in the 2 value in the end calculation.
So, what we have here is this.
52 ALU ops * 4 floats (vector4s) * 550 (clockspeed) * 2 (MADD) =228.8
Gflops for the RSX and Cell as a team.
If we do the same with the specs of Xbox 360 we will find that it does the following, all the numbers provided through the same calculation though with the Xeon the dot products are devided over it's 3 cores.
48 ALU ops (less than PS3) * 5 floats (vector5s better than PS3) * 500 (less than PS3) * 2(MADD) = 240 Gflops for Xenon, and Xeon as a team
This is one example of how this Xenon GPU together with the Xeon does more with less, and in this case it will give slightly better graphics.
So in theory we have a more powerful RSX with more Mhz's at it's disposal which due to some limitations within the architecture can not be used to it's full potential.
overall the RSX basically is a current gen processor which is overclocked, since it's architecture is not that different from it's predecessors.
I think in the end it will most definately come to the creative sollutions of the game programmers.. Which is when the xbox 360 wins overall as What many people are missing is that the new architecture of ATI opens new ways in terms of graphical development, and the 3 core CPU helps greatly too,as the Cell has only one SPE to the IBM's Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window.
which is why developers can now ponder new ways of programming, while for PS3 Developers will be bound to the more conventional ways of programming, and the power will be harder to effectively program.
So in terms of hardware the Xbox 360 definately will be able to deliver more performance.
Not to forget the price too. the ps3 will be $499 for the low grade and $599 for the premium grade,and the games cost $60-$80 each.But the thing that bothers me is that with the xbox 360 all you have to do with the core console is buy a hard drive and it wouild be a premium console,but for a low grade ps3($499) it has alot of features missing that you cant just buy that sony said the console will have,such as the low grade version($499) will not have HDMI for HDTVs, now ii dont think for the average person that they would pay that much for a console,
.Also the xbox 360 will be lowerd in price when the ps3 comes out.And also the PS3 will incorperate a blu ray player in there low grade console when it dosnt even have HDTV support so whats the point in putting a blu ray player when you cant use a HDTV on the console?
The internet service that PS3 are claiming is going to be free is agian a lie as there leaving that to the game designers, yep the GAME DESIGNERS!now would you think they will bother to set up a gaming service?no. Because sony are to lazy to setup a few servers and do it them selves, thats why there claiming its going to be free, whch of course its not even going to be available unless a very few minority a game designers companys decide to do this.
And the demos shown at E3 were all pre-rendered images as when they were designed, a prototype of the the PS3 wasnt even available and it was shown on a high end Mac gaming PC, so what you saw at E3 its not what you will on the PS3, so dont get your hopes up.
I am still shocked that many people still are falling for the sony hype, remember what they said last time? they claimed that the PS2 would match graphics of pixar animations such as toy story.And you can claim as much as you want about the PS3 having 5 more proessors than the xboxn 360 but just to let you know the cell was designed for multimedia not gaimng while the xbox 360's proccesor was desinged speciffically for gaming."
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| Posted: Fri, 25th Aug 2006 23:57 Post subject: |
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dsvone what does this have to do with Just Cause? Why are ppl still ranting about PS3 suxx , PC suxx, 360rulez/suxx. Go to Console section for that.
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Karmeck
Posts: 3345
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:01 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:12 Post subject: |
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| ALL CONSOLE BICHING KIDIS wrote: | | dsvone what does this have to do with Just Cause? Why are ppl still ranting about PS3 suxx , PC suxx, 360rulez/suxx. Go to Console section for that. |
all suxxksa - get a life , there is a world out side
Last edited by Hfric on Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:18; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:14 Post subject: |
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| Hfric wrote: | | maxiepaxie wrote: | | dsvone what does this have to do with Just Cause? Why are ppl still ranting about PS3 suxx , PC suxx, 360rulez/suxx. Go to Console section for that. |
all suxxksa - get a life , there is a world out side |
What? I'm not the person that started the console vs. console vs. pc discussion 
Anyway you and Eliz are saying to everybody 'get a life', you know what? You get a life and stop bitching. |
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:19 Post subject: |
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| maxiepaxie wrote: | | Hfric wrote: | | ALL CONSOLE BICHING KIDIS wrote: | | dsvone what does this have to do with Just Cause? Why are ppl still ranting about PS3 suxx , PC suxx, 360rulez/suxx. Go to Console section for that. |
all suxxksa - get a life , there is a world out side |
What? I'm not the person that started the console vs. console vs. pc discussion
Anyway you and Eliz are saying to everybody 'get a life', you know what? You get a life and stop bitching. |
OK happy changed it |
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:55 Post subject: |
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| Karmeck wrote: | | [img ]*http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/downloader/retarded243.jpg[/img] |
QFT!
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 00:58 Post subject: |
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hehe parallax. oldie but a goodie
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 01:18 Post subject: |
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Weedo
Posts: 1506
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 01:59 Post subject: |
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| Malveous wrote: |
Bottom line is, the PC is a developer's wet dream because it evolves with time while consoles are stuck at their base form and never evolve. Their only "evolution" is when the maker releases a new console Xbox -> Xbox360 -> no evolution just a new product which means that not everyone will want to buy it.
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That's not true. Consoles do evolve! The libraries and development tools get better and better and the programmers learn more and more tricks how to get the most out of the hardware. Just look at some first generation titles from 2000-2002 and compare them to current games. The current games look usually a lot better. This is a form of evolution.
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 02:10 Post subject: |
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lol consoles dont evolve? then explain what happened between Atari and XB360? whats that called?
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 02:14 Post subject: |
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the same was with Amiga CD-32 , just plug in the black box extension , add a hdd + disk drive , keyboard - and your CD-32 console evolved TO AMIGA 500/1200/4000
still think the best games where made on Amiga , no patches and other shit just insert your disk and play
i think Bill wants to make the same move like Commadore did - evolving your console
and Weedo LOL , you don`t know shit about computers don`t you 
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Weedo
Posts: 1506
Location: Japan
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Teniak
Posts: 2602
Location: Tic Tac
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 05:16 Post subject: |
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Peace .
Like this game *. Well playing at 640*480 full detail I know it ridiculous but game run fine and is so nice .
I was Flying with the copter from the third Mission. Then i made a free jump and i fall next on this rebel Copter [/img]
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 05:44 Post subject: |
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argh so much explanation needed.
IcedFreon, you are right I meant Physics and NOT PhysX by Aegia.
ATI's card will indeed come with Havok and be an amazing product while Aegia's physics engine does suck because it bottlenecks at the PCI slot.
dvsone, I am not some math teacher nor a guy with a major in computer science. I'm a game designer at Ubisoft who has worked with the xbox360 dbox, the ps3 dbox and PC development and was simply stating that from my point of view, working on the PS3 is a bitch, working on the xbox360 is cool and working on the PC is the best part.
Weedo, you just stated what I was stating, they try and get the most out of the hardware which in itself will never evolve until another generation of console comes out.
What's in the Xbox360 will remain the same forever. The Playstation2 will keep the same hardware forever and so does the PS3, Wii and company. On the other hand, what's inside a PC evolves; you have the possibility to put in an HD Drive (once it's really out), you have the possibility to put in a better video card and so on and you are unable to do that with consoles. For example, there is a version of the Xbox360 that is sold without a hard drive which means that when developing a game for the x360 you need to take in consideration that about 50% of your players will not have a hard drive so you cannot develop something vital for the game that will require a hard drive because if thats the case then you will lose 50% of your client. You can't develop a Playstation 2 game thinking the majority of the PS2 owners have upgraded their console with a new video card since its impossible. The console is what it is and will never evolve in that way.
When you start development on a game and you plan on releasing it on PC well you are able to plan ahead and produce amazing results because a PC is scalable.
IcedFreon, you did not really read what I wrote or it might be the fact that english is not my mother tongue but CONSOLES DO NOT EVOLVE. Console Generations do evolve.
In other words - and to use yours - they did not change the main board of the Atari and then added other chipsets to create the Xbox360; they are 2 complete different products.
You are using a pathetic sophism to try and prove a non existent point; to evolve means to develop gradually. The Atari2600 did not develop itself gradually into an Xbox360 simply because it is not the same product. The Xbox did not develop itself gradually into an Xbox360 since they are two different consoles. If consoles evolved you wouldn't need to develop your games on a PS3 dbox, you could just do it on a PS2 dbox since the PS2 will evolve into a PS3. I hope you all get my point with the non-existent evolution of consoles while there is a present evolution of the console generations.
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| Posted: Sat, 26th Aug 2006 05:57 Post subject: |
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funnily enough i was at ubisoft just around the time of E3 attending a workshop, and trying out the Wii controller. Game designer you say? if you work with dev boxes you know what ALU's and MADDS are and vector 4's and 5's you dont need to be a math teacher you should understand these concepts, and the simple math should make enough sense that the comment wasnt needed.
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