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anarxist
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Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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 Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 13:05 Post subject: |
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You should stop whining unless you are vegetarians.Cause if you are a carnivore,there's no escape,you have to kill those animals somehow to eat their flesh.Our predecessors used to kill animals the way,they thought was effective,without any second thought.And we do the same.
I once worked in an avian incubator for a two weeks.On early stages you have to sort the hatchlings,who'd survive who wouldn't.You got a nice grinder beside you,where you throw all the shells and ...flawed hatchlings.I was the first creature,they saw in their life and the last. 
They say,that the hatchlings usually accociate the first creature,they met after hatching,with their mother.What a nice mother I was for them throwing them alive in a grinder 
At first I was disgusted,but then got used to it.
Imagine the stuff,what's happenning in butcheries all over the world,where mammals are butchered for food.
But I like meat,so...the world is unfair,we are on the top of the food chain bla bla bla.
All wild animals are doomed anyway.
One day it'll be over.The overreproducted humanity will eat chemicals,and fresh meat will be a delicatesse for the rich.Untill then enjoy your barbeque . 
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 13:11 Post subject: |
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They should just kill pigs cows and chickens for food thats it I would be fine with that...Me and my buddies allways threw snowballs at bitches with fur coats it was so funny! I also know some graffiti dudes who sprayed down this chicks white fur coat lol with green color!! I love that shit heheheh
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 13:47 Post subject: |
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So eating them is OK,but wearing ther skins on your trunk,legs,feet,head is not?
Using drugs, tested on animals should be disallowed as well.Right?
As for destroying clothes of those women,well...it's just funny stuff for kids.It's not that you are protesting against brutal treatment of animals,just having a ball.
I used to do some pretty nasty things too,when I was a kid: blowing self made bombs near passer bys,burning some wooden buildings,breaking windows of houses,breaking into industrial/military faciliies,robbing alien kids from other blocks.
All for fun So,I guess,harassing women with fur coats is not that bad at all having in mind,that at least you have some kind of justification for this 
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 14:31 Post subject: |
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You got a little offtrack here, anarxist.
It's more about HOW they get killed. Our predecessors were killing animals to survive, we now don't actually need meat to survive, but that's not the issue here. The thing is some people treat animals like they're just some product.
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 15:19 Post subject: |
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I agree,that we as humans should do everything to reduce as much as possible their suffering,when we kill them.
But all those poor animals talks are mostly blown out of proportions and hypocritical.
Who thinks about suffernings of cows in slaughter house.Who thinks about sufferings of rats,when they are poisoned and die from intoxication.Nobody gives a fuck about their sufferings.But they are no less developped mammals,than cats or dogs.They say,rats have some really complex social structure.
But if you kick a dog for barking at you,you may as well be fined.
I mean,we humans still kill each other ruthlessly.
Only when/if we stop killing each other,we can really start thinking about other animals rights.
Otherwise it's one big pile of hypocrisy.
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Jenni
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Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 15:28 Post subject: |
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Don't you realise that war although terrible, furthers humanity in a technological sense.
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anarxist
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Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 15:38 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | Don't you realise that war although terrible, furthers humanity in a technological sense. |
Yes it does
Everything in this world has bad and good sides.I think,nobody would argue,that bad sides of war overweigh the good.
Humanity can control its number by simple birth control,not by slaughtering each other.And techno-progress can still go on without any wars to stimulate it. |
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Jenni
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Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 16:13 Post subject: |
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Not to such great an extent. Mass production comes from war. Without mass production we'd still be very tech backwards.
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 17:01 Post subject: |
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What do you mean?
Mass production has been part of our reality since Henry Ford.Every industry now uses it at certain extent.War is not neccessary for it.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 17:43 Post subject: |
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| anarxist wrote: | | Jenni wrote: | | Don't you realise that war although terrible, furthers humanity in a technological sense. |
Yes it does
Everything in this world has bad and good sides.I think,nobody would argue,that bad sides of war overweigh the good.
Humanity can control its number by simple birth control,not by slaughtering each other.And techno-progress can still go on without any wars to stimulate it. |
birth control like the chinese. if you have more then one they kill the newborn?  |
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 19:01 Post subject: |
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| JeanPerrier wrote: | | birth control like the chinese. if you have more then one they kill the newborn? |
Some sort of birth control will be implemented on certain stage unless you prefer wars or living in overpopulated planet. |
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Jenni
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Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 19:48 Post subject: |
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| anarxist wrote: | What do you mean?
Mass production has been part of our reality since Henry Ford.Every industry now uses it at certain extent.War is not neccessary for it. |
WTF! Ford never ever invented a production line. Actually Springfield rifles was in a mass production years before that Nazi Ford. |
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Buddymander
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Location: both dangerously delicious and deliciously dangerous
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 19:51 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | anarxist wrote: | What do you mean?
Mass production has been part of our reality since Henry Ford.Every industry now uses it at certain extent.War is not neccessary for it. |
WTF! Ford never ever invented a production line. Actually Springfield rifles was in a mass production years before that Nazi Ford. |
nut uh!
Everything PBS says is absolute truth.
| Quote: | | Take everything I say seriously or else |
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 19:57 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | anarxist wrote: | What do you mean?
Mass production has been part of our reality since Henry Ford.Every industry now uses it at certain extent.War is not neccessary for it. |
WTF! Ford never ever invented a production line. Actually Springfield rifles was in a mass production years before that Nazi Ford. |
Whatever makes you feel good ,mylady
Still,what do you mean by saying,that we need wars for mass production? |
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Jenni
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Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 20:15 Post subject: |
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Well it helps. I mean the need for mass production is to beat the enemy. The war as in WW2 showed that it's quantity rather than quality that wins. Beat the enemies production quota and win.
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anarxist
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Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 20:29 Post subject: |
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We don't need wars to boost mass production as a whole.But sure global wars will increase mass production in military field,but non military mass productions will suffer in the same manner.
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Jenni
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Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 20:32 Post subject: |
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No they won't. War costs a lot. money comes from taxation. Taxation comes from consumerism. Consumerism can only be supplied by mass production.
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Buddymander
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Location: both dangerously delicious and deliciously dangerous
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 20:41 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | No they won't. War costs a lot. money comes from taxation. Taxation comes from consumerism. Consumerism can only be supplied by mass production. |
You just described most of the world economy.
| Quote: | | Take everything I say seriously or else |
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anarxist
Banned
Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 21:42 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | No they won't. War costs a lot. money comes from taxation. Taxation comes from consumerism. Consumerism can only be supplied by mass production. |
Let's say England went into tight war with... say Fuckistan.Most of the men are in army.Some of them worked in the plant,that produces TV-set,they even have a reseach department their.In that war,this plamt will most probably be frozen.Most of the men are in army.Those,who stayed,went to work to nearest tank factory,since it went into 3 shift production,and they needed new workers.TV-sets research department is also closed-> no progress in TV-development.
During wars selling of TV-sets will drop drastically.And this will happen with every industry,that is not directly connected to military.
People will buy less,will pay less taxes.The government will redirect, the money,they still have into military connected fields reducing payments of state-hired teachers,doctors and so on.Mass production of bullets and gun-powder and the like goes up,mass production of everything else goes down.
You get one-sided technological progress,since all the brain power is concentrated now in military |
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Jenni
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Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:00 Post subject: |
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What a load of shite. You're describing a bankrupt country. Britain was nearly bankrupted by WW2 but not quite.
Get real Anarxist. Wake up and smell the coffee and see the light.
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Buddymander
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Location: both dangerously delicious and deliciously dangerous
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:03 Post subject: |
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Get real Anarxist. Wake up and smell the coffee and see the light. |
Its more like looking into the abyss than the light if anything.
| Quote: | | Take everything I say seriously or else |
Last edited by Buddymander on Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:18; edited 1 time in total |
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anarxist
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Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:04 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | | What a load of shite. |
That's pretty much the words,I was about to say on that sentence of yours,describing economy of a country at war. | Quote: | | War costs a lot. money comes from taxation. Taxation comes from consumerism. Consumerism can only be supplied by mass production. |
| Jenni wrote: |
Get real Anarxist. Wake up and smell the coffee and see the light. |
No coffee.Im' gonna go sleep in an hour or two. |
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:07 Post subject: |
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Looking into nothingness seems to sum it up for me BM. He can't see past his own countries little nose.
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anarxist
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Posts: 4377
Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:34 Post subject: |
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Consumerism during war.
I'll recal that everytime I'd need a good laughter.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2006 22:49 Post subject: |
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Really it depends on the scale of the war. The effect that a conflict like the Gulf war has on the economy, compared to either of the world wars is completely different.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2006 02:58 Post subject: |
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| mark322 wrote: | | And price? Many of us can't afford luxuries such as buying organic food. |
I eat very little meat, so me it wouldn’t bust the bank if I was to buy organic meat. I have a system, I try to eat low, low, low on the food chain. People eat too much meat.
I pick it up organic meat and looked at it, 4 times as expensive. Then I check the date. I HAVE SEEN 4 DIFFERENT DATE STICKERS over top on another. I peeled them off to see the origional. It had been sitting there 8 days. First sticker said 2 days. That is gross.
I don’t buy organic food either but everybody assumes I do. Eggs you know for sure if they are free run or not because of the bright orange yolk, but for the rest of the stuff how do you know it is really organic. I don’t trust them. There is just far too much money to be made off organic products and I think the whole industry is corruct and self serving. I find the average consumer so nieve, they take marketing ploys as dietary education in the selection of foods they are willing to consume.
This is a good link about organic vrs non organic produce by the Canadian Caner Agency. It claims little or no benifit of switching to organic foods.
http://www.cancer.ca/ccs/internet/standard/0,2939,3172_372059_266317_langId-en,00.html
But really for livestock just because animal meat is labled organic doesn’t mean that animal was treated ethically.
This is from Saskatchewan Agriculture and food. No where on here that I saw, did it say anything about the ethical treatment of animals. (it is kinda big)
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An Introduction to Organic Beef Production
Introduction
The organic livestock industry is in the early stages of development but is rapidly gaining acceptance. This document will provide general information on production and marketing of organic beef, a sector that appears to be growing at a rapid pace.
A producer and/or rancher who is considering organic livestock production should gather information on production requirements, including cost-of-production and specifications of an organic standard. It is also very important to learn about the organic beef marketplace. The Canadian Organic Livestock Association (COLA) is a marketing organization that promotes the organic industry and develops marketing opportunities for its membership. For more information, please contact Carol Lowndes, Secretary-Treasurer, COLA, at (306) 327-4753, or at www.gks.com/cola.
Although successful organic grain farming is not dependent on the inclusion of livestock, having a mixed operation does complement the holistic approach of organic agriculture, especially through nutrient recycling. Some underlying principles of organic grain production are the minimization of soil degradation and erosion and the replenishment and maintenance of soil fertility by encouraging biological activity within the soil. All essential nutrients are present to some degree in manure; the biological and physical properties of manure also help to improve soil structure and composition. As well as reaping the benefits of nutrient recycling, producers are increasing their on-farm revenue by adding value to their grain.
Table of Contents
The Organic Beef Marketplace
For the average consumer, there is probably much confusion about the difference between an "organic" product and a "natural" product. An organic product must comply with the stringent production, animal husbandry and processing requirements of an organic standard. The marketing term "natural" is not as clearly defined as "organic". In general terms, a natural meat product is produced without the use of antibiotics and artificial growth stimulants. Organic meat production requires additional provisions that include an audit trail and third-party verification.
Organic Standard Requirements
Because there may be slight differences in requirements between the various organic standards, producers should always review the standard to which they are complying, and ensure acceptance of products and practices by their particular certifying organization. It is not the intent of this publication to outline detailed requirements of organic livestock production, but general guidelines can be given.
Record Keeping
Detailed record keeping of all aspects of the operation is required by the certification agency. The standards are defined by the certifying agency; there is third party inspection of the producer's operation, including animals, facility and records. Ultimately there is an audit trail from the primary product to the finished product.
Stock Replenishment
Beef to be sold as organic must be maintained under continuous organic management. Non-organic breeder stock may be brought into an organic operation provided that the animals, if gestating, are brought into the organic operation prior to the third trimester. There are no restrictions on male breeding stock and the practice of artificial insemination is discouraged.
Animal Health Care Practices
Producers of organic livestock should establish, maintain and document their preventive health care practices, particularly the practice they employ if illness occurs, and the protocol for determining when a sick animal must receive a prohibited drug. If prohibited drugs are used, the animal must be identified and sold into non-organic markets. In such a case, detailed records of the medication, animal identification and receipt of the conventional sale must be retained. Ruthless culling of chronic problem cattle is the best way to develop a healthy herd that is adapted to a particular farm.
A key ingredient in preventative health care is the reduction of stress. Animals should receive housing, pasture and sanitation conditions that minimize the occurrence and spread of disease. Conditions must also provide for exercise, freedom of movement and reduction of stress that is appropriate to the species.
Vaccinations and Antibiotics
The use of certain vaccinations is permitted; however, antibiotics are prohibited in order to maintain organic status.
Parasite Control
A common method of parasite control is the use of diatomaceous earth. This product can be used as a feed ingredient and is claimed to be effective for this purpose. Diatomaceous earth is also used externally as a dust for lice.
General Animal Husbandry
Producers should select types of livestock that are suitable to the management and facilities of their farms to minimize stress and disease potential. On-farm conditions should accommodate the natural behavior of the livestock. Access to the outdoors, shade and shelter must be provided. Excessive crowding of animals is prohibited - the space allotted per animal is generally twice that given animals in a non-organic environment.
Feed Requirements
All feed sources must be certified organic, without exception. Harvesting and processing must also occur in certified facilities.
Growth Hormones
The use of growth hormones is prohibited.
Manure Management
Producers are required to manage manure in a manner that does not contribute to contamination of crops, soil or water by plant nutrients, heavy metals or pathogenic organisms. Processing and application should be such that nutrient recycling is optimized. Composting is highly recommended and restrictions on the application of raw manure do exist.
The onus is on producers to ensure that all practices comply with the standard to which they follow and are approved by their certifying agency.
Table of Contents
Cost-of-Production, Premiums, and Profitability
North American cost and return information for organic beef is very limited. A 1999 Prairie Organic Beef Costs and Returns Study that was prepared for Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada shows that, although organic beef producers receive a premium for their products, it does not always cover the extra costs of organic production. The study found that the cost of the finishing phase of organic beef was 27 to 39 per cent higher, while the returns were 31 per cent higher than conventional beef. The net returns for organic cow-calf operations were 60 per cent lower than for conventional beef production. A major increase in costs is due to sourcing organic feed and bedding. These components can be somewhat limited in supply and subject to price volatility.
This is an industry in development; as such, much of the necessary infrastructure is currently limited. Many components of the processing and marketing chain remain in flux. Issues in areas of product identification, promotion, consistency of supply, international harmonization of organic requirements and affordable processing must be addressed if the sector is to meet its potential. All of these components will affect the return side of the profitability equation, and until they are resolved, it is impossible to predict profitability. Producers must understand and accept the risks involved with this developing sector.
Although domestic markets may be underdeveloped, sustained profitability of organic beef production appears to be dependent on export markets. It is suspected that the costs and pricing structures for organic beef are much more dynamic than in the conventional market, as indicated by the volatility of organic grain prices. As the market and the industry develop and mature, the costs and returns may stabilize and provide newcomers to this sector with a clearer picture of the risks and rewards of organic beef production. |
http://www.agr.gov.sk.ca/docs/organics/research/organicbeef.asp
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Jenni
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Location: England.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2006 06:44 Post subject: |
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| anarxist wrote: | Consumerism during war.
I'll recal that everytime I'd need a good laughter. |
Laugh away. But remember this. The US went away with twice the wealth that it went into during WW2.
Not to mention that your country wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the three billion in arms aid suppled to you by the Americans. How do they supply that aid. Well taxation. I've already mentioned where taxation comes from. Consumerism is the only way to generate wealth. Without wealth you won't have the taxation at anything like the level we have now. Unless of course you would be happy going back to serfdom and be paying a tithe once a year. |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2006 09:26 Post subject: |
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Things have completely changed since WW2. The only country that might flourish from War now is China since all the manufacturing jobs have gone there, lol.
If this old economic model were still true today the American economy would not be in the dumps and they would not have massive debt. If they continue for much longer we will see America fall like the USSR did.
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anarxist
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Location: Israel,born in the USSR
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2006 14:13 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: |
Not to mention that your country wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the three billion in arms aid suppled to you by the Americans. How do they supply that aid. Well taxation. I've already mentioned where taxation comes from. Consumerism is the only way to generate wealth. Without wealth you won't have the taxation at anything like the level we have now. Unless of course you would be happy going back to serfdom and be paying a tithe once a year. |
You give me USA as an exapmle,while USA was an exception in WW2.It was probably the only country,that benefitted from that war financially.If you take any european country during that period,they were all down in debts to USA and to their own population.
Yes ,mylady,there's no way consumerism can generate the money,needed for war.Since people buy less or even go to direct goods exchange.So what you do,you borrow money from your more lucky allies and borrow money from population by overtaxing it or by obliging the population to buy some sort papers of value with promise to return the money after the war (may be even with some interest).
/me continues laughing about consumerism during war as a key factor of financing it. |
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Ankh
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Location: Trelleborg
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