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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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 Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007 20:31 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Mutantius wrote: | | Quote: | | Uh, what? Do graphics not look as good in third-person? Yeesh. Also, I imagine that, considering that F3 will probably end up coming out nearly three years after Oblivion, that it will look substantially better than Oblivion does. |
When did the fallout franchise turn third person? Im talking about top down isometric action game, if Bethesda used the engine to create that then I do think its a complete waste of ressources. |
Top-down, and any game in which you see your character externally, and play from any perspective other than that of your character, is third person. So, yeah, a top down game is a form of a third-person game. |
Wrong. 'Third Person' is a term used commonly to refer to games like Tomb Raider or the Hitman series. It's never, ever, used to refer to isometric games like Fallout. |
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Mutantius
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Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007 21:57 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Mutantius wrote: | | Quote: | | Uh, what? Do graphics not look as good in third-person? Yeesh. Also, I imagine that, considering that F3 will probably end up coming out nearly three years after Oblivion, that it will look substantially better than Oblivion does. |
When did the fallout franchise turn third person? Im talking about top down isometric action game, if Bethesda used the engine to create that then I do think its a complete waste of ressources. |
Top-down, and any game in which you see your character externally, and play from any perspective other than that of your character, is third person. So, yeah, a top down game is a form of a third-person game. |
Sure but if Bethesda chosed to retain the isometric top down third person game I would still see it as a waste of ressources and time!
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007 23:11 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | Wrong. 'Third Person' is a term used commonly to refer to games like Tomb Raider or the Hitman series. It's never, ever, used to refer to isometric games like Fallout. |
No, you're wrong, and so are most people about this term. The term "third person," as it relates to games, is equivalent to it's literary counterpart. If you see your character and are being shown what they are doing and what is happening to them from afar/externally, then you are seeing your character in third-person. So, ANY external viewpoint is third-person. Though many people, such as yourself, are misinformed and believe that "third person" can only refer to the viewpoints seen in games like Tomb Raider, it is, in fact, technically a catch-all term for any external viewpoint.
Games like Tomb Raider and Hitman are viewed from a third-person perspective, correct, but more specifically, from a "chase" or "over the shoulder" viewpoint. But the "chase" camera is only one form of the broader category of "third person," which, as I have explained, can be properly used as a catch-all term for any external viewpoint.
| Ispep wrote: | | Jesus what the fuck was the point in writing all that crap. |
What is the point in all you whiny fucking little brats bitching about shit that you don't even have any concrete reason to believe? My point is to offer some compelling arguments as to why you all don't need to be bitching so much this early on.
| Ispep wrote: | Deus Ex was a first person shooter with role playing elements. It's a generic fucking term and we all know how good it's console orientated sequel was don't we.
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Oh god. In context it's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER because I was relating to the perspective of the game. If you actual read what I said you'd know that. |
So, a the only way a game can possibly be in first-person and be an RPG is if the only weapons you use are swords and magic? Are you fucking dense?
| Ispep wrote: | | Secondly if you've read the comments coming from tight-lipped Bethseda you'd know that they have hinted towards staying with the tried and true. It's safe then to assume that they will be taking more than the odd glance at their multi-award winning, best selling TES franchise during this process. |
As I already said, you pigeonholing Bethesda as only being able to make Oblivion-style games proves that you know jack shit about the company. Pigeonholing ANY company the way you morons are is stupid. I mean, for christ's sake, until Warcraft came out, Blizzard made (awesome, in my opinion) racing and platforming games on primarily for the SNES.
You think they're worried that, if they don't make it like Oblivion or make it an FPS, that there won't be a big enough audience for Fallout 3? Well, in case you weren't aware, nobody gave a shit about The Elder Scrolls until Morrowind came out. Well, ok, that isn't exactly true, but the fanbase of the series increased severalfold when Morrowind came out. So, they took Elder Scrolls from being a niche, not-too-popular RPG series on PC, to being a fucking household name with the release of Morrowind, while still keeping true to the earlier TES games. What makes you so fucking sure that it's impossible for Bethesda to take Fallout into the major leagues, without compromising the identity of the series up until this point?
Again, CHILL THE FUCK OUT until you know more about this god damned game.
You know, considering the massive backlash against Shadowrun that Microsoft has been getting, and how upset people are that they turned that classic RPG in the a stupid online-only FPS, I think that Bethesda will be wise enough to consider that in their decisions of what the make of Fallout 3, wouldn't you agree?
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Karmeck
Posts: 3348
Location: Sweden
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jun 2007 23:58 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | Well, in case you weren't aware, nobody gave a shit about The Elder Scrolls until Morrowind came out. Well, ok, that isn't exactly true, but the fanbase of the series increased severalfold when Morrowind came out. So, they took Elder Scrolls from being a niche, not-too-popular RPG series on PC, to being a fucking household name with the release of Morrowind, while still keeping true to the earlier TES games. What makes you so fucking sure that it's impossible for Bethesda to take Fallout into the major leagues, without compromising the identity of the series up until this point?
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Well we all seen how they went from Morrowind to that dumbed down console port of Oblivion. POS compared to M. GG Betheseda. I have sooooooooooooo high hopes for Fallout.... 
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 00:02 Post subject: |
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What are you talking about? PERSPECTIVE. Look it up. I use the term first person shooter, isometric and third person because they are CONVENTIONS in video-game language. I don't care about their literal interpretations in English.
| Quote: | | As I already said, you pigeonholing Bethesda as only being able to make Oblivion-style games proves that you know jack shit about the company. |
I never said anything of the sort. I said that judging by their comments and their past that it's obvious they'll be leaning on the cash-cow that was the award winning, best selling, platform crossing Oblivion. I never said they couldn't make anything else, I just said that it would be extremely unlikely.
You've offered no evidence to suggest otherwise.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 00:11 Post subject: |
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| Karmeck wrote: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection
you are worng, Cedge. |
Uhhm, and that article proves...? What exactly?
And even if that article directly stated "Isometric games are not third-person games," guess what, it's fucking Wikipedia, which is hardly the end-all supreme factual resource.
Whether you're viewing them from up in the sky or from directly above their shoulder, if you see your character from a camera outside of their body, then you are seeing your character from a third-person perspective. Learn the definition of words, for god's sake.
| Ispep wrote: | | What are you talking about? PERSPECTIVE. Look it up. I use the term first person shooter, isometric and third person because they are CONVENTIONS in video-game language. I don't care about their literal interpretations in English. |
Just because you're improperly using terms, doesn't change that, technicality, I'm right.
| Ispep wrote: | I never said anything of the sort. I said that judging by their comments and their past that it's obvious they'll be leaning on the cash-cow that was the award winning, best selling, platform crossing Oblivion. I never said they couldn't make anything else, I just said that it would be extremely unlikely.
You've offered no evidence to suggest otherwise. |
So, that they've made one sort of game before is evidence that every game they make after that will be the same as that game? What the fuck sort of evidence is that? That's not evidence, that's an ASSUMPTION. Learn the fucking difference, Einstein.
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Karmeck
Posts: 3348
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 00:27 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Karmeck wrote: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection
you are worng, Cedge. |
Uhhm, and that article proves...? What exactly?
And even if that article directly stated "Isometric games are not third-person games," guess what, it's fucking Wikipedia, which is hardly the end-all supreme factual resource.
Whether you're viewing them from up in the sky or from directly above their shoulder, if you see your character from a camera outside of their body, then you are seeing your character from a third-person perspective. Learn the definition of words, for god's sake.
| Ispep wrote: | | What are you talking about? PERSPECTIVE. Look it up. I use the term first person shooter, isometric and third person because they are CONVENTIONS in video-game language. I don't care about their literal interpretations in English. |
Just because you're improperly using terms, doesn't change that, technicality, I'm right.
| Ispep wrote: | I never said anything of the sort. I said that judging by their comments and their past that it's obvious they'll be leaning on the cash-cow that was the award winning, best selling, platform crossing Oblivion. I never said they couldn't make anything else, I just said that it would be extremely unlikely.
You've offered no evidence to suggest otherwise. |
So, that they've made one sort of game before is evidence that every game they make after that will be the same as that game? What the fuck sort of evidence is that? That's not evidence, that's an ASSUMPTION. Learn the fucking difference, Einstein. |
You can never be wrong can you?
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 00:46 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just because you're improperly using terms, doesn't change that, technicality, I'm right. |
Words take on different meanings within different contexts. You're not right, you're wrong.
| Quote: | | So, that they've made one sort of game before is evidence that every game they make after that will be the same as that game? What the fuck sort of evidence is that? That's not evidence, that's an ASSUMPTION. Learn the fucking difference, Einstein. |
Read. That's what you need to do. Go back and read what I said. I've already stated it was an assumption but also provided a strong basis for this assumption. |
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 00:48 Post subject: |
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| Karmeck wrote: | | You can never be wrong can you? |
Being right usually implies that someone isn't wrong. Thusly, I'm never wrong.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 01:05 Post subject: |
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Lets face it, since this is bethesda and this is a major production, It's never going to be like Fallout 1-2 that were fairly low budget, niche rpgs with adult story and elements. You can see this just from the audiance at their forums, its bunch of kiddes and console enhusiasts who loved Oblivion, and just for that kind of people this game will be.
Encouraging to see locking of threads like this already started at their forums.
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=707330
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Freudian
Posts: 364
Location: Din mamma!
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 04:16 Post subject: |
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why is Fallout 3 gonna suck? 3 words: Star Trek Legacy
and about the kiddie Halo fans this game is gonna pander too... they are screaming "we want to play Fallout, finally, something worth playing. we hope its a FPS like the first 2"
its the same crowd that screwed up NWN2 by bitching you dont get a new level every 20 minutes.
anyways, about graphics... who cares? i just bought Diablo 2 Battle Chest, and i think it looks and plays awesome, still 6 years later. for Fallout 3 to be a FPS would be a travesty, and there would be no reason for it other than exploiting the franchise to try and steal away the Halo crowd... all the fans of the original Fallout are gonna be wincing when this crap comes out and its the same as every other game on the market, with a crappy DM multiplayer.
“There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not”
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 07:06 Post subject: |
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| Banelord wrote: | | why is Fallout 3 gonna suck? 3 words: Star Trek Legacy |
That game was developed by Mad Doc Software, and only published by Bethesda. Fallout 3 is being developed internally by Bethesda internally. Big difference.
| Banelord wrote: | | and about the kiddie Halo fans this game is gonna pander too... they are screaming "we want to play Fallout, finally, something worth playing. we hope its a FPS like the first 2" |
Where have you seen anyone say this? Seriously? Link, please.
| Banelord wrote: | | its the same crowd that screwed up NWN2 by bitching you dont get a new level every 20 minutes. |
No, the developer, Obsidian, screwed up NWN2, probably because the time and budget constraints imposed by the publisher Atari, which is struggling severely these days.
| Banelord wrote: | | anyways, about graphics... who cares? i just bought Diablo 2 Battle Chest, and i think it looks and plays awesome, still 6 years later. for Fallout 3 to be a FPS would be a travesty, and there would be no reason for it other than exploiting the franchise to try and steal away the Halo crowd... all the fans of the original Fallout are gonna be wincing when this crap comes out and its the same as every other game on the market, with a crappy DM multiplayer. |
Okay, as I've already said, the backlash against Microsoft's Shadowrun travesty, which turned a classic RPG into a multiplayer FPS, has been severe, and I have no doubt that Bethesda is wise enough to pay attention to people's reaction regarding that.
You're being negative solely for the sake of being negative, and it's fucking obnoxious.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 10:41 Post subject: |
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| Banelord wrote: | why is Fallout 3 gonna suck? 3 words: Star Trek Legacy
and about the kiddie Halo fans this game is gonna pander too... they are screaming "we want to play Fallout, finally, something worth playing. we hope its a FPS like the first 2"
its the same crowd that screwed up NWN2 by bitching you dont get a new level every 20 minutes.
anyways, about graphics... who cares? i just bought Diablo 2 Battle Chest, and i think it looks and plays awesome, still 6 years later. for Fallout 3 to be a FPS would be a travesty, and there would be no reason for it other than exploiting the franchise to try and steal away the Halo crowd... all the fans of the original Fallout are gonna be wincing when this crap comes out and its the same as every other game on the market, with a crappy DM multiplayer. |
LOL, the hell is your problem?
Everything in your post screams that you are one of those pathetic older guys who want carbon copy sequel for the game they ones played so they could be reminded of the their happier days playing the prequels. Well guess what? Nobody gives a fuck about your nostalgia since unlike you some people realize that progress and change IS NOT A BAD THING.
Here's a funny story, remember GTA2? Yeah, the old top-down shooter.. Well the moment that rockstar announced that GTA 3 is going to be 3D, tons of future-telling-progress-hating-bags-of-shit like you started spamming every forum they found with comments like this: "for GTA to be a TPS would be a travesty, and there would be no reason for it other than exploiting the franchise to try and steal away the Halo crowd..."
and guess what Nostradamus? The game actually was a fucking huge success!!!!
Also, a few random tips for you:
A. People that own consoles are not dumber and games for consoles are just as mature as their PC counterparts.
B. To judge Bethesda by one bad game they did not make is fucking dumb.
C. Oblivion has an average score of 92.
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Ankh
Posts: 23348
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 19:46 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: |
You're being negative solely for the sake of being negative, and it's fucking obnoxious. |
Sadly that seems to be all too common online, it's like they think it's cool or something. Including the way people deride some of the larger companies for no apparent reason.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 22:18 Post subject: |
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Hey, why not, game is years away, its ether you think it will be crap, or think it will be super awesome. It gives you something to do while you wait.
And for bitching large companies for no reason, what's wrong with that? I bitch about microsoft and think oil companies are thing of a devil, but that doesen't stop me from using office and tanking my car at local gas station.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 23:45 Post subject: |
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That article was a great read. I had no idea Bethesda were such conniving corporate whores. Well, the whole "we're selling content that should have shipped with the base game for $2.50 a pop" thing kinda clued me in, but I had no idea it went to such an extent.
Seems to be more and more common now'a'days, developers acting all buddy buddy with the community until a game is released, then all of a sudden, not a word more.
The whole fucking industry has gone down the shitter. Shame 
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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Karmeck
Posts: 3348
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 7th Jun 2007 23:56 Post subject: |
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NMA: For whiners by whiners
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Freudian
Posts: 364
Location: Din mamma!
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jun 2007 00:44 Post subject: |
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| fawe4 wrote: | Hey, why not, game is years away, its ether you think it will be crap, or think it will be super awesome. It gives you something to do while you wait.
And for bitching large companies for no reason, what's wrong with that? I bitch about microsoft and think oil companies are thing of a devil, but that doesen't stop me from using office and tanking my car at local gas station. |
Yes blame the companies!
I mean... It's not like it's the retarded consumers fault in the first place!
And this is why I feel the way I do about console fanbois. They are setting the course of the gaming industry towards a more simplistic, or should I say retarded way of gaming.
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jun 2007 02:18 Post subject: |
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| fawe4 wrote: |
And for bitching large companies for no reason, what's wrong with that? I bitch about microsoft and think oil companies are thing of a devil, but that doesen't stop me from using office and tanking my car at local gas station. |
That makes you a hypocrite.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jun 2007 16:03 Post subject: |
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I think the teaser only reveals one thing: The game wont be finished till 2009 (Fall 2008 actually means 2009 to me) many things can change in 2 years.
Game industry has change like (USA) movie industry changed in the past century but 5 times faster. They put more emphasys in scripts and acting before, now all you can see are stunning fx all over the screen or/and dumb and stupid dialogue with humour for 9yo kids. (before the flame I must say that there are some good movies too, but they are the very less)
Fallout 1&2 are like a noir movie from 40s, Fallout 3 gonna be like a remake of 'Touch of evil' with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore in the main characters.
I hope Im wrong with this.
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Surray
Posts: 5409
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jun 2007 16:33 Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure Fallout will be dumbed down to appeal to a bigger audience, as that brings in more money while pissing off the more serious players, and with production costs of big games these days beeing so huge, I don't think the developers have a choice.
That's probably why you see innoative and complex games coming almost only from indipendant and small developers these days.
So yeah, with Fallout going to bethesda, they sure as hell are gonna make it a huge project, so it's going to look great while beeing as simple and calm as possible.
It's most likely just not going to be fallout, while beeing called Fallout, so it's best to just see it as different game.
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slak
Posts: 248
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 8th Jun 2007 23:57 Post subject: |
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Bethesda can make decent games, but they make shitty RPG's, F3 should be a RPG.
"Why not just shut up and have people only think you are a moron instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt." -Mark Twain
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Ankh
Posts: 23348
Location: Trelleborg
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