| Page 2 of 2 |
|
|
 Posted: Tue, 12th Jun 2007 23:40 Post subject: |
|
 |
I hafta agree. I just installed this version being a Vista virgin up until now and I have to tell you that using this OS full time would gurantee my putas were nothin but worthless pieces of plastic and cheap alloy in less than a week after I kicked the fucking things into next year.
Maybe there is a way to pull all the chrome n wings off so you can see what is going on under the bonnet but I had a try at it and still the goddamn piece a shit fell into these periodic silences where nothing visible was happening on screen but you could sense the OS was flat out like a lizard drinking working away at something.
Something I didn't ask it to do and something which uses up alla the resources so when I need it it is as slow as a wet week.
This wasn't an old system I put it on either. I put it together just for the trial outa new pieces. It had 3.2 gz Intel 775, coupla gigs ram, seagate sata 2 drives an audigy 4 card which despite repeated attempts the system couldn't find In the end I had to enable the onboard AC 97 which it found right away (maybe that is a hangover from the Dell shit I dunno). It did find the vid card which was the only old bit a 7600gt(with those guru 3d Vista drivers that have been around a while) but it didn't like it or the Hackburner Halo2 install so it was no good to me.
Maybe it was the soundcard that it didn't like which is pretty fuckin ironic since refused to even shake hands with a real card.
After I pulled out Vista I put in XP to make sure the sound card was OK and it found it straight away and worked.
This OS couldn't pull a greasy stick outta a dogs ass. It slows down the computer while it considers whether what you plan on doing is permissable. It's fucking autistic and it can't won't talk to anyone - just sits there acting like it's the only fuckin thing in the world apart from Bill of course. It asks to phone home incessantly and when it does get thru never has anything useful or relevant to say.
If Vista is gonna be the face of computing I think I'll find I new hobby.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007 00:45 Post subject: |
|
|
Vista cripples opengl aswell, thats a big deal for cross platform interopability, I have to work with Vista everyday at work and it's alright when I'm 'just' doing dx related stuff, but if we have to do something outside of our current "contract" most of the programmers use Linux,XP and some have begun using OS X aswell.
The future definitely doesn't lie with Vista when doing opengl or other "non MS related"' stuff.
And from a programmer/poweruser/tinkerer viewpoint being able to do what you want when you want/need it is alpha and omega.
Thats not to say that those fancy 8800+ cards are useless, opengl 2.++ and 3.0 are able to use all the fancy features that is shown in the Dx 10 tech demos.
Some of the major gaming studios "Epic, Idsoftware,blizzard" have always used Opengl and will probably continue to do so and some use dx/opengl solutions for whatever works best, the point is: "theres a choice, no solutions fits all"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
$en$i
VIP Member
Posts: 3127
|
| Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007 12:27 Post subject: |
|
|
| Epsilon wrote: | | Vista cripples opengl aswell, thats a big deal for cross platform interopability |
I didn't have too much trouble with Vue xStream's openGL and vista, what app do you use?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007 22:02 Post subject: |
|
|
| $en$i wrote: | | Epsilon wrote: | | Vista cripples opengl aswell, thats a big deal for cross platform interopability |
I didn't have too much trouble with Vue xStream's openGL and vista, what app do you use? |
Opengl/SDL api, I'm talking from a developers viewpoint, the oberserving users will only see the decrease in performance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Wed, 13th Jun 2007 22:49 Post subject: |
|
|
Shoddy OGL performance is to be blamed on drivers. Right now performance is bad, just like it is in DX applications.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 03:48 Post subject: |
|
|
with this release is there some weird stuff after your PC POSTs? If not then this aint the SLIC thing
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 05:30 Post subject: |
|
|
| LeoNatan wrote: | | Shoddy OGL performance is to be blamed on drivers. Right now performance is bad, just like it is in DX applications. |
That statement is wrong in so many ways, but most importantly: Vista doesn't allow Opengl to access the graphics card, it runs through DirectX, hence it uses Dx to "emulate" Opengl. And that is why Opengl will always perform like crap on Vista because Microsoft essentially cut it off.
They're trying to force developers to 'only' use Dx, only problem is they have to use Vista to do so or support that, and thats a HUGE PILE OF SHIT because theres so many third parties out there from console developers to cad makers to whathaveyou who cannot use Dx10 for the same stuff as they can with Opengl like embedded systems.
Vista is not and will not be a viable platform for Opengl or other third party work now or in the futere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 07:18 Post subject: |
|
|
It doesn't allow Vista to run OGL aplications in full performance on the default ICD (which emulates OGL1.4 in D3D). This is the ICD that comes installed by default under Vista. Graphic drivers writers can write ICDs that allows good performance under Vista. This requires you to install those drivers in order to have the good performance.  Like you're gonna use the default drivers anyway.
| MSDN Blog wrote: | OpenGL can go through one of three paths in Windows Vista depending on how your computer is configured.
1. MSOGL - this is an implementation of OpenGL 1.4 that uses Direct3D under the covers to hardware accellerate the application.
2. Legacy ICD's - These are the ICD's that are available today for use on Windows XP. These will continue to work on Windows Vista, but will disable the DWM when they are loaded in to the process of the application that's using OpenGL. The reason for this is that Legacy ICD's operate directly on the GPU without going through Windows at all, and we have no way of redirecting application's output in a stable, predictable manner.
3. Windows Vista ICD's - this is a new path for 3rd party ICD's introduced for Windows Vista that will work in a way that is compatible with desktop composition. Essentially allowing direct access to the GPU for hardware accellaration, but then having the final surface that appears to be the front buffer to the application actually be a shared surface that gets composed by the DWM |
http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/22/537624.aspx
http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3760
Haven't been updated, eh?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 09:29 Post subject: |
|
|
Well, that doesn't really matter as you still have to render to an offscreen frontbuffer with 'and' without WDM on, whether or not you use an externally provided solution or not.
Sure if you use the pixelformat flag PFD_SUPPORT_COMPOSITION you will keep composition running "enabling thumbnails and other fancy Vista features" yet if you don't have it and thus take up the full screen it 'still' renders to an offscreen frontbuffer = performance loss.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 10:11 Post subject: |
|
|
In fullscreen applications, WDM is shut down automatically, and if you need to run a windowed application, you can just set a compatibility to disable DWM when using that application.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 11:39 Post subject: |
|
|
| LeoNatan wrote: | | In fullscreen applications, WDM is shut down automatically, and if you need to run a windowed application, you can just set a compatibility to disable DWM when using that application. |
Did you read what I wrote?, it doesn't matter as it will always render to offscreen frontbuffer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 12:16 Post subject: |
|
|
Right, sorry. Still, this offscreen buffer rendering's performance impact is negligible in the long run.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 23:02 Post subject: |
|
|
The overriding issue for the punter out there who is stuck with Vista cause the M$ sock puppet developers make more Vista only games and appz is that the performance increase of the last coupla of years, gained by hardware development is getting chewed up by too many of these 'negligible' drains on resources.
Users that want their puta to reflect the increased investment they have made in it - the actual cause of this theft of resources is as irrelevant as the reasons behind it.
When XP came out with a similar top heavy resource grab cause M$ forced users to enjoy twiddly little gui improvements that they didn't need nor want, users tracked em down and turned them off. Not with Vista - tracking em down requires an unhealthy (IMO) knowledge of arcane windows systems and turning em off seems to be impossible.
So Microsofts behaviour reflects that of any lumbering monopoly from a stalinist state to the IBM mainframe days . They know whats best for you and will make all the choices necessary.
Any attempt at freedom of expression or a simple desire to exercise choice is treason and will be treated as such. The system is perfect and those wanting to alter it must be terrarists - well the virtual equivalent; hackers - intent on destroying M$ freedom to make a dollar.
We all know where that train ends up - the same place as IBM or the former Soviet Union but since the trip is meant to be more about the ride than the destination and some of us have already copped the scenery on other more interesting expeditions than the M$ journey to the bottom by self immolation it it occurs that it may be smarter to hop off now.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Thu, 14th Jun 2007 23:25 Post subject: |
|
|
When dumb users see Beryl, they cry why there aren't such effects in Vista. You cry about having skins/themes at all...  People, make up your minds!
Oh, and btw, "Users that want their puta to reflect the increased investment they have made in it." I have an 8800GTX, and Vista is the only thing that can "reflect the increased investment" I have made.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
|
| Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007 04:29 Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe that is true for you Leo, but it is not the only way to utilize the full instruction set or power available in the 8800, I myself own two of those cards and their being well used even though I don't game with Vista.
Infact the only place I have Vista is in a para-virtualized environment
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Fri, 15th Jun 2007 08:49 Post subject: |
|
|
How else would you use the full instruction set? Until a half-ass port of DX10 comes to XP, the advanced features are locked with Vista. Sure, OGL is nice, but not many games use it anymore (at least not the games I'm playing).
But this discussion is pointless anyway. It's the same one I had back in early 2001 when Whistler was forming up. Sure it's slower now, but in the log run it's all negligible and will be overlooked anyway in the near future when XP becomes obsolete feature-wise (which it already is).
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007 20:54 Post subject: Windows Update |
|
|
Does Windows Update work with this release?.... i mean, if i try it, will it blacklist my updater or something?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Sun, 17th Jun 2007 21:04 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martar
Posts: 176
Location: USA (sigh)
|
| Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007 04:13 Post subject: |
|
|
Iwas wondering.. In a dual boot situation With This release and Windows XP, does the BIOS emulator you need for this release have any effect/impact on the XP side?? Im a little confused about that part of it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franneke
Posts: 295
Location: A Swede(ish) in Belgium
|
| Posted: Tue, 19th Jun 2007 08:03 Post subject: |
|
|
No it doesnt, no effect at all. I use this release with Xp and i have had no problems so far
AMD X4 945 Phenom II | MSI 790fx-gd70 | 4gb Pc10666 RAM Patriot | ASUS HD6970 | IIyama ProLite E2407HDS | Windows 7 Ultimate 64 | 3 HDD's=3Tb | PS3 | Xbox360 | PSN & XBL Franneke, feel free to add me
http://speedtest.net/result/1460696652.png
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
|
| Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007 22:29 Post subject: |
|
|
I have a problem with this. My release works fine, so it's obviously not a problem activated by Microsoft recently. My fathers copy on the other hand no longer works. It comes up with enter a key or work in reduced mode.
I wonder whether this is because I had to use the repair function a few days earlier to fix a boot problem. Anyway is there a way around this problem?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Tue, 3rd Jul 2007 23:02 Post subject: |
|
|
Use it in reduced mode and install the crack again. It will install the key again and reactivate (hopefully).
The problem is that the repair has probably fixed the mbr and removed the loader, so no bios emu.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
|
| Posted: Wed, 4th Jul 2007 20:04 Post subject: |
|
|
Cheers, but you couldn't tell me which crack I should be looking for could you?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73259
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Wed, 4th Jul 2007 20:22 Post subject: |
|
|
Sure I could, lol.  Get the bios emu. loader, not the Paradox crack. I can't provide you a link, but I can tell you that the latest version (FF 2.1.2.1.2) is buggy, so get a version earlier than that.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 17th Aug 2007 12:34 Post subject: |
|
|
but it sucks tbh, that pantheon bios emulation crap, you can't update your chipset
yes
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 5th Sep 2007 00:24 Post subject: |
|
|
Anyone having activation problems with this release? Had mine installed now for over a month and had a window popup saying that the product key was invalid. Rebooted and was put into limited use mode. Luckly was able to still use explorer so grabbed the Windows.Vista.All.Versions.x86.x64.Final.Crack-CLoNY release and managed to run the app between explorer crashing and rebooting. It's working for now albeit with it saying 15 days till activation.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 2 of 2 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
