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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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 Posted: Sat, 5th Jan 2008 20:11 Post subject: X-FILES: SATA HDD disconnecting :UNSOLVABLE? |
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/don't read further if you don't wanna read really weird and scary story, that can happen 2 U 2 any day!/
I consider myself as IT professional with huge experience with home/small business HW and SW. There was only few issues in long history I needed help with. basically I can found out and fix every problem with my PC. That was true until last year.
At the very beginning of last year I bought another HDD (SATAII WD320GB, 7200rpm, 8MB) to accompany my existing one (SATA Hitachi 160GB, 7200rpm). Everything was fine, I had 3 partitions (Hitachi: OS, Data; WD: Data) and life was enjoyable, full of space but one day it suddenly happened.
I started to hear very disappoiting sound coming from case. It was clearly HDD turning off and back on within one second. Like when you unplug and plug in molex connector. Just simply, WD started to disconnect suddenly without no reason for really small amount of time. PC didnt freeze, nor the HDD, within few seconds was everything back on normal. So, I didnt realize and didnt really know what's going on.
I was trying to solve the issue with minor operations, like playing with molex/data cables to my HDDs. Trying to replace them, between each other, and so... I was suspecting new WD to be not compatible, or to have a some bug/issue by factory setting (it was really new and expensive SATA2 high speed HDD). It came to point I managed to replace this WD with the new one. I dont wanna mention all data transfers I had to do (300GB in, 300gb out) that. Struggling.
I replaced the disk, created one partition and was happy. For about week. It STARTED AGAIN. second HDD started just disconnecting. When was PC just with one HDD (primary: Hitachi), everything was fine, and nothing happened. When I added WD, after more or less time, it started all over again. Full of anger, dissapoitment and half of year of struggling with this problem, I angrily disconnected this WD HDD with all my precious data lost in LOST partition that came with all this disconnecting all over again. WD is in my drawer, waiting to have repaired MDB Table.
... but meanwhile, I figured out that, If there's no problem with single Hitachi drive (which I personally consider to be engineered very good, its old IBM) and I will need another 300GB HDD to extract precious data drom WD, I should buy another Hitachi at least 320GB (yeah, another money away just because not proper HW). I added new HDD to first one, and basically swapped OS from 160GB to 320GB. So I swapped old one from primary to secondary. And new one made as primary.
Guess what. Disconnecting of second hard drive didnt stop. There is no matter what brand of hard drive you have, it's still disconnecting. Okay then, at least, WD in the drawer is OK piece of HW, which can be added later and make me 'almost 1TB owner'. But still have this F#$^#Y^# problem, which is easily said: UNSOLVABLE.
I was browsing internet, found several users on similar tech forums, but none of them had the exact situation as I do. The most simillar to me was guy with the same problem, he figured out the PSU could be problem, but it's not. When you know how powerful your PSU is, and you can count with your sum of power needed for all HW inside case. You can figure, there is no problem with PSU. BTW: this guy bought new PSU in thought thats the problem, and guess what... second SATA HDD still disconnecting.
Question is what will happen if I connect three of SATA disks inside, If there will be only one disconnecting or two of them or what. But I dont have nerves to put my data in such a risk. But I really dont think PSU or power supply is problem.
I was trying to fix problem all software ways: newest drivers for everything except BIOS, I didnt change BIOS of my MB yet, because I have highly overclocked PC and it could make me mess with settings.
Thats my story, sorry, but I can bet, there is no one from you, who can solve this problem. But as you can see I'm really desperate that's why I am putting my problem here at nForce. I hope somebody will help me, because in my long history 1st time I cannot help myself.
My specs:
AMD Opteron144 1,8@2,7, 2x512MB 400mhz DDR2 Dual Channel on DFI LanParty Ultra-D with Nforce4, X1950 512MB PCIE, Hitachi320GB SATA, Hitachi160GB, WinXPSP2
Last edited by ZOLLINO on Mon, 7th Jan 2008 01:11; edited 1 time in total
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$en$i
VIP Member
Posts: 3127
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Nec
Posts: 235
Location: Israhell
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jan 2008 21:48 Post subject: |
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Actually, my second SATA2 WD 250gb hard drive is currently disconnected for several months because it seemed to be doing the same thing. This is not the first time this happens to me, already lost a full 160gb drive in a similiar occurance about a year or two ago, so I fear plugging it back in unless I really need it.
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-M CPU: i7-3770 Cooler: CM Hyper 212 EVO GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 4GB MEM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Beast 2133Mhz SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB HDD: WD Black 3TB Sata 6Gb/s CASE: Corsair Carbide 330R PSU: Antec HCG 620W Semi-Modular
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jan 2008 22:50 Post subject: |
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This sounds power save option turned on in some windows based PCs though some windows updates (possibly). Very common in windows Vista now getting there with Windows XP. Many calls about it at work (I work as a senior tech in a computer companies call center) It spins a hard drive down and spins it back up; Updating your BIOS *may* solve this, but supposedly it's meant to preserve the life of hard drives. I'll see if I can find the KB article on this, I remember reading about it a few months ago - in fact, there was discussion of this on one of the Vista threads with Leo, myself and a couple others.
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Nec
Posts: 235
Location: Israhell
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jan 2008 23:07 Post subject: |
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Heh, I also thought about the powersaving modes, but I never turn it on because it does not seem to have control options for individual hard drives, but for all of 'em.
If my computer is on, one hard drive always has some data being written on it, so turning powersaving mode would actually do nothing, I suppose.
I failed to mention I'm also running WinXP Pro.
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-M CPU: i7-3770 Cooler: CM Hyper 212 EVO GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 4GB MEM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Beast 2133Mhz SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB HDD: WD Black 3TB Sata 6Gb/s CASE: Corsair Carbide 330R PSU: Antec HCG 620W Semi-Modular
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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jan 2008 23:25 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: | | This sounds power save option turned on in some windows based PCs though some windows updates (possibly). Very common in windows Vista now getting there with Windows XP. Many calls about it at work (I work as a senior tech in a computer companies call center) It spins a hard drive down and spins it back up; Updating your BIOS *may* solve this, but supposedly it's meant to preserve the life of hard drives. I'll see if I can find the KB article on this, I remember reading about it a few months ago - in fact, there was discussion of this on one of the Vista threads with Leo, myself and a couple others. |
When you talking about spinning the disk down and up again ... a thing comes up my mind. Sometimes I hear not really normal (I would say strange; new) sound like HDD spinning up and down by the means of RPM. That would suggest connection to your idea of some *secret* advanced power option for Vista being implanted somehow (i'm running WinXP). If it's true there should be some policy, or service running this up or at least reg setting.
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 00:24 Post subject: |
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| ZOLLINO wrote: | | Phluxed wrote: | | This sounds power save option turned on in some windows based PCs though some windows updates (possibly). Very common in windows Vista now getting there with Windows XP. Many calls about it at work (I work as a senior tech in a computer companies call center) It spins a hard drive down and spins it back up; Updating your BIOS *may* solve this, but supposedly it's meant to preserve the life of hard drives. I'll see if I can find the KB article on this, I remember reading about it a few months ago - in fact, there was discussion of this on one of the Vista threads with Leo, myself and a couple others. |
When you talking about spinning the disk down and up again ... a thing comes up my mind. Sometimes I hear not really normal (I would say strange; new) sound like HDD spinning up and down by the means of RPM. That would suggest connection to your idea of some *secret* advanced power option for Vista being implanted somehow (i'm running WinXP). If it's true there should be some policy, or service running this up or at least reg setting. |
I'm not really saying its secret per say, just sort of undocumented - I definitely noticed it with my older system before upgrading. It was very common - and I was running XP on it. Noticed it on several vista machines - I never found a remedy for it - but maybe Vista having slower hard drive read times may play into it. |
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$en$i
VIP Member
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 00:35 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: | | I'm not really saying its secret per say, just sort of undocumented - I definitely noticed it with my older system before upgrading. It was very common - and I was running XP on it. Noticed it on several vista machines - I never found a remedy for it - but maybe Vista having slower hard drive read times may play into it. |
You mean control panel > power options > change advanced power settings > Hard disk > turn of hard disk after n minutes (put 0 for never) setting?
I was referring to this and its XP counterpart in my initial post.
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 02:08 Post subject: |
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| $en$i wrote: | | Phluxed wrote: | | I'm not really saying its secret per say, just sort of undocumented - I definitely noticed it with my older system before upgrading. It was very common - and I was running XP on it. Noticed it on several vista machines - I never found a remedy for it - but maybe Vista having slower hard drive read times may play into it. |
You mean control panel > power options > change advanced power settings > Hard disk > turn of hard disk after n minutes (put 0 for never) setting?
I was referring to this and its XP counterpart in my initial post. |
Don't think so because that only works if theres no activity at all as far as I know... |
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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 13:10 Post subject: |
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It shouldn't be a Power Options as we know them. I have everything turned off in means of power saving, except monitor, which behaves correctly. I have power saving mode off for HDDs, it was the first thing I checked. Under Advanced card in XP i can see only What should Power Button do and show icon on taskbar an so on...
I have WinXP with all updates until May2007. I dont use Automatic Updates. Would be good if Phluxed can acquire some official name of feature, or what is it. So we can locate it under KB article, or directly in windows.
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 19:57 Post subject: |
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| ZOLLINO wrote: | It shouldn't be a Power Options as we know them. I have everything turned off in means of power saving, except monitor, which behaves correctly. I have power saving mode off for HDDs, it was the first thing I checked. Under Advanced card in XP i can see only What should Power Button do and show icon on taskbar an so on...
I have WinXP with all updates until May2007. I dont use Automatic Updates. Would be good if Phluxed can acquire some official name of feature, or what is it. So we can locate it under KB article, or directly in windows. |
I'm off work til Tuesday, I'll provide an update then. |
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Franneke
Posts: 295
Location: A Swede(ish) in Belgium
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jan 2008 21:43 Post subject: |
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LOL, this is funny, i have the exact same problem as you, i have 5HDD's in my computer and there is always 1 turning on and off (sometimes not all the time), and it only happens when im working in Vista. I also switched HDD, but still the same problem. I can't explain it either, but the computer doesnt crash so i leave it be. Funny that i read about this problem on this forum.
AMD X4 945 Phenom II | MSI 790fx-gd70 | 4gb Pc10666 RAM Patriot | ASUS HD6970 | IIyama ProLite E2407HDS | Windows 7 Ultimate 64 | 3 HDD's=3Tb | PS3 | Xbox360 | PSN & XBL Franneke, feel free to add me
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Veki
Posts: 381
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Mon, 7th Jan 2008 14:13 Post subject: |
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I had the same problem. My HDD would lose power for a fraction of a second. I could hear it powering off and then powering on within a second. And it would do that a couple of times in a row (3-7 times). Since it was my OS HDD, windows and all apps were frozen while the HDD was off.
This happened twice to me in 3 years and 9 months.
First time if was a faulty power connector.
Second time my PSU was failing and this was one of the symptoms.
I have 2 SATA HDDs. My former PSU was Chieftec 360 W. Now I have Fortron 350 W.
| ZOLLINO wrote: | | When you know how powerful your PSU is, and you can count with your sum of power needed for all HW inside case. |
I would like to point out that wear and tear have their effect on PSU and their ability to deliver declared amount of power to the system.
And while your PSU is sufficient to power your system, it may be failing and should be replaced.
When my PSU failed, my system acted like this (before this happened my HDD was acting like yours are now) :
It was working normally. Then it simply powered itself down. After 1-2 seconds it powered itself up. After 1-2 seconds it powered down. etc...
After a couple of power ups, power downs it would finally power up. But after a couple of minutes if would power down, then power up, etc...
And if I unplugged the power cord and then plug it back in, my computer would after 3-5 seconds power up all by itself.
Once I turned off my computer, went to the kitchen, and when I came back (after 5 minutes) the compuet was turned on. I was like 
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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jan 2008 15:32 Post subject: |
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yeah... let's wait for Phluxed, he makes things more thrilling  )
To the point of dying PSU. I had never problems with my PSU, it's some big brand, gold plated, 2 heatfans from 3 years, which costed me these days about $200. Replacing PSU is the easiest option, But I've already spent money on replacing HW which made no difference and I refuse to spend another dollar on HW producers. Because you think your HW is failing, but in fact it's the OS or HW itself, who has bug in it. I have right to use it without any interference and interruptions and WITHOUT paying more and more money to HW producers. Btw, there is no assurance that when i replace my PSU, there will be thing solved. I more think there will be no difference according to other user's experience and opinions. But thanks for your help and contribution. It's appreciated. I hope nForce has such a big amount of visitors and gurus, we can be able to investigate this problem to the roots.
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Veki
Posts: 381
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jan 2008 08:57 Post subject: |
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I also never had any problems with my old PSU until the day it decided to die.
I also would not buy a new piece of hardware if I'm unsure that that new piece of hardware will solve my problem. But I would borrow that piece of hardware from a friend to see if the problem is in that piece of hardware or the problem is something else.
You're welcome, glad to help.
It is a very unusual problem and I'm not sure that I eliminated it from my system, so I'm also interested what is the source of this strange problem and what are the possible solutions.
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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jan 2008 15:17 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: |
I'm off work til Tuesday, I'll provide an update then. |
Phluxed, any news to topic? I'm still waiting for any clue to go with...
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ZOLLINO
Posts: 138
Location: Cambridge / Bratislava
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| Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008 11:22 Post subject: |
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oh god, still not any better...
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