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 Posted: Tue, 1st Jul 2008 14:13 Post subject: |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Tue, 1st Jul 2008 16:12 Post subject: |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 04:02 Post subject: |
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 again you missread my post..
I hate spelling things out but oh well. Read my sentence again. It says :
"Theist ideas entail that I believe in a non-biblical form of 'god' or higher being."
That is the definition of Theist. The word God doesnt become subject of my view just because I am quoting a definition; its just a figure of speech if you will, from whoever wrote the dictionary.
 Spoiler: | maybe g0dzor? |
Anyway, enough banter about it. I'm Atheist. I do not believe In higher beings, I do not believe in deities, religious books/leaders, angels, demons, spiritual guides, any form of X besides the pint of cider in my hand and the slice of battenburg cake in the other. . bla bla..
Im a fully fledged couldntgiveafuckist, IMO we are on this rock of shit flying through space for reasons we will probably never know, at least in my lifetime. So instead of looking for answers which cannot be found, I shall enjoy myself in one thing I know for a complete certainty; Cider is great, cake is the best invention ever and having sex cures any bad day.
Good fucking night!
| Spoiler: | dont let those Dante Alighieri bugs byte |
troll detected by SiN
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 10:13 Post subject: |
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kaeye .. Do you genuinely believe you can just deny your way out of theism ? What about the reality that you harbor theist beliefs about religion, faith, demons, God, prayer ect ... ie your way of defining these things is the same as the Bible believers, how can you be atheist when you define religious subjects like a theist ? I'm genuinely interested in how you think you can do it, how can you think like a theist about religion & be an atheist ?
Its a clever trap the Bishops have set, catching the fish of your free will with their answers to the unavoidable questions that define a persons viewpoint on reality. Unless you use your own judgment in regards to the unknowns & uncertainties in life, your subordinate to those who's judgments you cling onto, whether you like the judgments or not. What matters is who is doing the judging. 
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 11:16 Post subject: |
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I don't get it. Didn't he said he doesn't believe in those above mentioned? He is just saying that he doesn't believe in theistic seeing of 'higher' beings. He could be using terms like allah, chrishna, buda ect... and still not believe in anything, which includes all the above mentioned. So how could that make him theist. By using the terms they do? I don't get your logic, if there really is one...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 11:42 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | kaeye .. Do you genuinely believe you can just deny your way out of theism ? What about the reality that you harbor theist beliefs about religion, faith, demons, God, prayer ect ... ie your way of defining these things is the same as the Bible believers, how can you be atheist when you define religious subjects like a theist ? I'm genuinely interested in how you think you can do it, how can you think like a theist about religion & be an atheist ?
Its a clever trap the Bishops have set, catching the fish of your free will with their answers to the unavoidable questions that define a persons viewpoint on reality. Unless you use your own judgment in regards to the unknowns & uncertainties in life, your subordinate to those who's judgments you cling onto, whether you like the judgments or not. What matters is who is doing the judging. |
Can't you just know stuff without believing in it?
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 12:28 Post subject: |
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| Krille666 wrote: | | Can't you just know stuff without believing in it? |
If your only viewpoint on religion is a theist viewpoint your theist by default. Its the proverbial paper bag trap. You need your own truth, a knife.
| dingo_d wrote: | | I don't get it. Didn't he said he doesn't believe in those above mentioned? He is just saying that he doesn't believe in theistic seeing of 'higher' beings. He could be using terms like allah, chrishna, buda ect... and still not believe in anything, which includes all the above mentioned. So how could that make him theist. By using the terms they do? I don't get your logic, if there really is one... |
Think about where the answers are coming from. Who is making the judgment. When you think of the word God, who's judgment do you adopt ? When a person says they don't believe in God, its an admission that they have accepted somebody else's meaning for the word God & decided whether God exists based on that persons judgment.
People confuse science with religion. Science is a record, a method of analyzing data recorded. Religion is our way of addressing what we cannot record. What we can only experience & ponder. Death, virtue, happiness, ect..
We adopt judgments of science because its based on testable data. Religion has no testable data its based on what we think about what we cannot explain only experience. Theism is nothing but an old world tool of manipulation, meant to blot out peoples self reliance & make them utterly dependent on authorities, be they religious or political.
People are far too willing to let other people do their thinking for them. Having contempt for authorities is nothing but proof of your subservience to them. Only thinking for yourself defeats those who presume to do your thinking for you.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 12:46 Post subject: |
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sorry chinup, but respecting somebody else's point of view of "the being with all the powers", has totally nothing to do with your own opinion, and doesn't mean you let an option open that there could be some sort of power. On another note, using examples and names of the religion that is dominant in your surroundings is only a logical thing.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 13:29 Post subject: |
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| suil wrote: | | sorry chinup, but respecting somebody else's point of view of "the being with all the powers", has totally nothing to do with your own opinion, and doesn't mean you let an option open that there could be some sort of power. |
Yet that other persons opinion is the only opinion that exists in your mind ? Where does that leave you ?
| suil wrote: | | On another note, using examples and names of the religion that is dominant in your surroundings is only a logical thing. |
Its what people who don't think for themselves about religious questions do. Again you confuse religion with some system everyone must adopt like scientific principles. Religion is like art 100% personal choice. You can no more share my religious views than you could share my eyes with me. It is vital that you acknowledge where the line between your views & shared views is. Science offers shared ideas because it can back them up with data that can be tested objectively. Sharing religious ideas denies your own viewpoint on that which science cannot yet record & analyze.
Part of growing up is realizing what others can do for you & what they should not.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 14:11 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | kaeye .. Do you genuinely believe you can just deny your way out of theism ? What about the reality that you harbor theist beliefs about religion, faith, demons, God, prayer ect ... ie your way of defining these things is the same as the Bible believers, how can you be atheist when you define religious subjects like a theist ? I'm genuinely interested in how you think you can do it, how can you think like a theist about religion & be an atheist ?
Its a clever trap the Bishops have set, catching the fish of your free will with their answers to the unavoidable questions that define a persons viewpoint on reality. Unless you use your own judgment in regards to the unknowns & uncertainties in life, your subordinate to those who's judgments you cling onto, whether you like the judgments or not. What matters is who is doing the judging. |
Chinup, Chinup Chinup...
hear here. Enough with the logic/idea that because I use biblical terms to describe something I must think like a theist, its nonsense.
Give me another word to describe angels, demons, etc.
Im not going to asign algebraic values to all forms of of these things just to prove through your silly logic that I can think outside of what you think makes me a theist.
It does not matter what terms of words you use to describe/talk about your own/any X, if you dont believe in any form of X then you are an Atheist. This is what I am; an ATHEIST, A T H E I S T.
Using your logic, I would become a nazi instantly should I use the word Holocaust 
Dont make me put my underpants on my head and run after you. I have always thought outside the box, even when I was a nipper I decided myself that all the holy book talk around me was bullshit and went to play with my micro machines. I didnt care then, I dont care now.
Please please please stop being such a word twister.
I may invent my own language, just so I can be free of ChinUp world of logic.
*I heared a man on youtube saying he doesnt believe in god one time so I will become a theist by default if I use any word that he used; this instantly means I cant think for myself!*
cmon man, its daft.
| ChinUp wrote: |
Its what people who don't think for themselves about religious questions do. Again you confuse religion with some system everyone must adopt like scientific principles. Religion is like art 100% personal choice. You can no more share my religious views than you could share my eyes with me. It is vital that you acknowledge where the line between your views & shared views is. Science offers shared ideas because it can back them up with data that can be tested objectively. Sharing religious ideas denies your own viewpoint on that which science cannot yet record & analyze.
Part of growing up is realizing what others can do for you & what they should not. |
No no no, no no no. See, what you are doing there is applying even more retarded logic. You are saying that logically people who dont think for themselves use logic from around them. Only Sheeople do that. I am not a Sheeople. Ive always been highly independant with my thoughts and ideas.
You are being hypocritical there. You are quoting no doubt what you have learnt from somewhere, right? So I could say that is what people who cant win an arguement with their own words do. Human beings learn from others around them if you didnt learn from others you would still be in a nappy shitting yourself and making baby noises because no one taught you how to read. Your logic would work if we where NOT a society, if each human being was in their own little world; thus defying the point of this whole arguement. Which is why I said you are a John Nash, a bright and intelligent bloke who lives in his own little world and logic; bigot by nature and everyone else automatically is a theist or an idiot because they learn from their surroundings and fellow man or use bibilical terms to describe things.
I applaud you for having your own logic however, it shows you arent a sheeople. But I am aiming to point out how retarded your logic is.
troll detected by SiN
Last edited by Cohen on Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 14:34; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 14:20 Post subject: |
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You do make really good arguments, but if you do not believe in nothing, and rest assured nobody can explain you what nothing is, to what do you compare your non - believes?
Saying that you don't believe in god doesn't necessarily means that you accept the gods meaning as some Christian does, rather as a reference, something that they believe but you do not share their opinions.
Why should we denied them for having their thoughts about something that is unexplainable (and will never be probably), we don't have to accept it, but can make arguments to why we do not think the way they do...
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 14:41 Post subject: |
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| dingo_d wrote: | You do make really good arguments, but if you do not believe in nothing, and rest assured nobody can explain you what nothing is, to what do you compare your non - believes?
Saying that you don't believe in god doesn't necessarily means that you accept the gods meaning as some Christian does, rather as a reference, something that they believe but you do not share their opinions.
Why should we denied them for having their thoughts about something that is unexplainable (and will never be probably), we don't have to accept it, but can make arguments to why we do not think the way they do... |
I define my own nothing. I dont really think about it; but this doesnt mean I deny my way or avoid the unknown. I just choose not to care, I used to be interested in the subject but as I grew older I lost interest very quickly; life is too short to be worrying about why we are here, "what happens after" (no bible, just for chinup ) etc etc.
Take it from me, I know a few people like myself, including friends and family who are so much happier than most other people. You will become far happier with less cares in the world; its just a fact. Animals have only the pressure to hunt and survive; this is all a human needs to exist in my opinnion. Hense to another thread where I stated I could quite happily live by myself with nature and no one else to bother me, no X's to trouble the world or answer-less questions on the mind.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 21:02 Post subject: |
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kaeye, dingo_d .. It is the job of evangelists to spread the message that God is a deity that wrote the Bible, created the universe & the only true religion is worship of said deity.
Due to the Bible being the most published book in the world, evangelist meanings for religious terms dominate dictionary meanings for religious terms. Along with the theist church being an integral part of legal systems & all government authority systems. people are trained from an early age that its either the theists religion or no religion.
The foundation of philosophy & science lies in the rejection of scriptural answers for life's questions. It is a sheer pretense that the questions God, faith, prayer, truth, come from & are answered by scripture. These are questions humans have pondered since the dawn of our kind. The virtue of religion is in the asking, rather than in pretending politically convenient answers are true.
If you genuinely wish to be an atheist, genuinely wish to reject theism, i suggest you start by no longer taking anything in scripture seriously. Open your mind to the potential of your own questioning mind, rather than closing it up because of pretentious buffoons who seek to play people for fools.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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MannyK
Posts: 1406
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 21:47 Post subject: |
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Ok.. now im pissed..
i was coming back from school.. i passed the damned church i talked about.. and got my bus.. after 3 or 4 stops some guys enters and start talking about jesus and stuff!
DAMN!! THEY DISCOVERED THE BUSES!!! RUUUUUNNNNNNN!!!!!
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Jul 2008 22:22 Post subject: |
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Just tell the guy straight, Nobody who really cares about people seeks to convert them into slaves to an unseen master.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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