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 Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 18:33 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Ignoring everything you cant explain & control is called critical thinking huh, seems more like old fashioned ignorance to me.  |
Show me where exactly have I wrote that.
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So you are under the impression one either denies everything or accepts everything as truth ? A curious viewpoint on critical thinking you have there. Seems to me critical thinking involves objectivity, that means placing officially sanctioned information on an even par with information that is not officially sanctioned. Any irrational nonsense like name calling & blind loyalty to authority figures hampers actual thought & honest observation of data.  |
| Quote: | | A very useful skill that actually allows you to have some degree of doubt in the actions of your government while not becoming a complete paranoid one hand and being able to see that not every word of of every fucking troll on the Internet must be complete and undeniable truth one the other |
| Quote: | | We Are not in control of reality, we do not understand everything. Thus we must remain humble & respect all sources of data no matter how obscure or unlikely. |
Different sources of data have conflicting imformation. Thus, we must choose the most likely source and proceed to either proving it wrong or right otherwise you'll be stuck "respecting" your sources of data forever.
| Quote: | | The key is not making any final judgment calls until we are 100%. Until we are certain we have to keep looking for where we are mistaken & oblivious. |
There is no such thing as a universal proof. You can doubt anything and everithing in this world. In this case the only way to find some sort of proof is to decide for yourself(or accept someone elses decision) what kind of proof you need to believe in something - are you looking for something substential like something that you can actually see or is Bob from Youtube saying something is proof enough for you. |
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 19:15 Post subject: |
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who likes the "rods" theory?
i like the idea just want to know what you think.
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CaptainCox
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Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 19:19 Post subject: |
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That's the one I like the least. Why
LINK
Maybe there is more to it, but it somehow don't feel right...the "rods" theory of a new life form that is. And believe me I am very open minded 
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 20:53 Post subject: |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 21:09 Post subject: |
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| dominae wrote: | | Irony alert! |
How about you address the topic rather than pick fights .. Do you, like liansk believe what is real & what is not is based on peoples testimony rather than solid data that can be objectively tested by anyone ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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CaptainCox
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Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 22:44 Post subject: |
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Check out 14:18 of this vid (hit play and pause, let it load, unless you want to see it all. Pretty cool all of it but 14:18 did it for me  )
LINK
WTF...
The latest on this stuff...from YESTERDAY BBC!
LINK
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| Posted: Fri, 4th Jul 2008 23:31 Post subject: |
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Are there aliens ? maybe , did they visit earth ? maybe , i dont know .
But all the so called "proof" i saw is bullcrap, around proof there can be no doubt, a video of an ufo is just that a video with something in it , it can be photochopped, any sort of light , it can be so many things , unless you prove its an UFO it isnt one.
Its like religion, millions believe it, even though there is zero proof.
Many believe 9/11 was an inside job, while you saw it with your own eyes, while its logical and proven that metal once a plane strucks it full with kerosin that ignites will get weaker and bend....conspirancy lies about 70% they say, make up 30% and mix that with people who have no clue being eye witnesses "it looked like a rocket", hey cause that guy said it was a rocket its true right? To show how this is relevant, i saw a amateur video of a guy standing on his balcony a few miles away in NY and recording the second plane flying in , you hear him say "a fucking rocket just hit the second WTC tower" while we know from close up and the actual plane gone missing inside.. that it was a plane.
Its all the same thing , be rational, dont swallow down everything that is spoon fed to you, be critical, if that was done Bush wouldnt have even be president and so on...
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jul 2008 09:22 Post subject: |
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meh... I say it's all lens flare in Photoshop 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jul 2008 11:47 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | dominae wrote: | | Irony alert! |
How about you address the topic rather than pick fights .. Do you, like liansk believe what is real & what is not is based on peoples testimony rather than solid data that can be objectively tested by anyone ? |
I already DID address the topic.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Jul 2008 18:28 Post subject: |
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just to calrify i dont think the "rod's" theroy is tru its to do with the camera lens so im told but i like the idea
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jul 2008 01:47 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | dominae wrote: | | I already DID address the topic. |
You have KEEP addressing the topic. Stop picking fights & address the topic.  /trollout |
Ooh, another moderator-wannabe, too bad you need to be both horrible at moderating AND being female to be a mod here... at least until it becomes too evident.
| Quote: |
I think the general issue here is what people are willing to believe, IMO its a mistake to just take somebody's word for it, even if said person represents an official body. Solid data anybody can test is what does the trick. Trouble is due to audio visual data being wide open to tampering, audio visual doesn't count as solid data. We need off earth manufactured materials or personal contact. |
Yes, true. The problem is that experiences like that have to be shared for them to be widely accepted. There's a reason why some "truths" are more widely accepted than others. However, science is a valid method of doing this; not always does science discover the truth - but like democracy is to governing people, science is to governing truth.
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i have to admit that even if an alien showed up on the BBC news chatting with an announcer I would still be skeptical. |
Well, initially - I think most would be. But once reliable sources of information kept showing new credible material, and more people honestly witnessed these things, they would be believed (and no longer a mystery).
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jul 2008 13:06 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jul 2008 13:55 Post subject: |
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| dominae wrote: | | Ooh, another moderator-wannabe, too bad you need to be both horrible at moderating AND being female to be a mod here... at least until it becomes too evident. |
I want people to not need moderators. Sadly due to people being incapable of controlling themselves we do.
| dominae wrote: | | Yes, true. The problem is that experiences like that have to be shared for them to be widely accepted. There's a reason why some "truths" are more widely accepted than others. However, science is a valid method of doing this; not always does science discover the truth - but like democracy is to governing people, science is to governing truth. |
The mistake occurs when people take the word of scientific officials who don't actually have any credible data to back up their claims. Dawkins for example, is a prime example of a scientist who uses his official position to push his own unfounded claims. People are too willing to blindly believe what so called authorities tell them.
| dominae wrote: | | Well, initially - I think most would be. But once reliable sources of information kept showing new credible material, and more people honestly witnessed these things, they would be believed (and no longer a mystery). |
without physical evidence that can be tested objectively, its foolish to call it anything but theory. It makes more theoretical sense to think earth isn't the only place life exists in the universe. That doesn't make it a fact. Its still a big ol mystery.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jul 2008 15:21 Post subject: |
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even if life exists elsewhere it'd be far beyond a man's imagination and I doubt they're advanced enough to have ships that are faster than light if such a thing is possible
if there is life on the solar system it cannot be intelligent in anyway all there must be is microscopic microbes , beyond solar system is anyone's guess , but they have not visited us nor they'll ever will
ancient scripture on walls is legends or myths used to control those tribes , give them something to believe and keep them in line
aslong as there's no solid proof of intelligent life that's not terran then it didn't visit us nor it ever will
UFOs might be some unknown phenomenon or secret projects , but area 51 that's full of aliens is bull
some people need to believe this because they need that hope but truth might not be always convenient for everyone
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
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Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Jul 2008 17:46 Post subject: |
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Just some Larry King stuff on Roswell (5min or so)
LINK
And some more Larry King
LINK
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Mon, 7th Jul 2008 20:25 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | Bitchy BS much ? |
I find it comical that you are incapable of seeing that you're just as "bad". ^_^
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Sadly the majority of ideas people think are facts, due to them being offered up by officials aren't facts @ all. Only ideas that haven't fallen through due to having no way of properly verifying or disproving them. Big bang for example. Playing the same retarded game the church play. |
Yes, agreed. The common people exert little or no critical thinking at all, which makes them the copycat sheep they generally are.
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Am I the first to tell you your an anal retentive hairsplitter ? So much bitterness, you must feel so unloved & unwanted to be like this. |
lol, when I say it I'm bitter and lonely, when you say it: " Sadly the majority of ideas people think are facts, due to them being offered up by officials aren't facts @ all." you're not. You are a walking irony hypocrite.
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Agreed, its irrational to say life originated on earth just because we have found no evidence to the contrary yet. |
Well, not really. We have no evidence to support that life originated anywhere else, whereas we have plenty that it originated here. Rationality is using what means you have to construct a theory, contrary to religious speculation that uses supposition as an argument (full of maybe's, if's and could's).
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jul 2008 12:38 Post subject: |
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| dominae wrote: | I find it comical that you are incapable of seeing that you're just as "bad". ^_^
lol, when I say it I'm bitter and lonely, when you say it: " Sadly the majority of ideas people think are facts, due to them being offered up by officials aren't facts @ all." you're not. You are a walking irony hypocrite. |
I think your looking in a mirror.
Its all about comparing & reflecting, better/worse, winner/looser, superior/inferior. round & round you go.
| dominae wrote: | | Well, not really. We have no evidence to support that life originated anywhere else, whereas we have plenty that it originated here. Rationality is using what means you have to construct a theory, contrary to religious speculation that uses supposition as an argument (full of maybe's, if's and could's). |
Am i to think you are under the impression the rational course is one of self obsession ? That all you are willing to acknowledge exists is what you already know exists ? Where is the call for reason when you are so busy avoiding having to think ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jul 2008 20:33 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jul 2008 21:41 Post subject: |
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well aliens probably exist, but i dont think any would be able to make it here considering the ridiculously large distances between solar systems.
The night is dark and the road is long. Come on dead men, return to your homes.
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jul 2008 22:29 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | I think your looking in a mirror. |
That hard to admit to yourself, is it?
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Its all about comparing & reflecting, better/worse, winner/looser, superior/inferior. round & round you go. |
What are you trying to say here ChinUp? Are you trying to say that comparing and reflecting, eg. trying to determine whether something is better or worse is a bad thing?
| ChinUp wrote: |
| dominae wrote: | | Well, not really. We have no evidence to support that life originated anywhere else, whereas we have plenty that it originated here. Rationality is using what means you have to construct a theory, contrary to religious speculation that uses supposition as an argument (full of maybe's, if's and could's). |
Am i to think you are under the impression the rational course is one of self obsession ? That all you are willing to acknowledge exists is what you already know exists ? Where is the call for reason when you are so busy avoiding having to think ? |
Perhaps this is a language-barrier, because you keep putting words in my (and others who disagree with you) mouth. I never spoke of any self-obsession, that is your own conclusion. It reveals more about what you think, than what I do.
From what I see here is that you:
* Want to claim that something exists that is not known to exist.
* That any criticism against such existence is "blind science".
* That "thinking" somehow resolves the conundrum of something's existence.
---
I have already previously stated that I am willing to agree to that there may be other life in space. But that speculations around it is fantasy. It's like believing that there's an invisible man living in the sky, and then speculating about whether it is here to do us good or evil.
I agree that such philosophical ventures can be stimulating, but to think that something you have imagined is equally as real as we are; based upon pure speculation isn't really using your mind, if you start to believe that your dreams and fantasies really are real and start living up as if they are, you really get involved in self-obsession. Because it's only about you, isn't it? If you fantasize about something and get stimulated by it, it's a self-indulgence. And of course that's alright. It's a free universe.
It's when you start to think that these fantasies do not need to stand up to critical thinking, and are to be viewed as equally true as the fact that this is a text, written on an internet-forum, that you no longer have claim to be a rational person. An idea based on speculation and fantasy remain such until it is as real as this text, can be discerned by anyone (not through equal fantasy or speculation, but viewed with our available faculties).
Now, as for your criticism against science (again), science is exactly what I describe to you here. It's about making observations, documenting them, reflecting/criticising them, and keeping them available to the world (essentially). No real scientist ever claim that their proven theories are the final truth, and if you ever will have any experience in the world of science you should discover such, that it's really only nature-science that really concern themselves with ultimate truths (such as 1+1=2 is always true). The rest of science are always open to that a theory can be disproven (as it has throughout the history of science).
However, many scientists would laugh at someone claiming to know something to be true, but didn't have any other data than "because it might be", or "because it could be", or the naïve notion of "because scientists are wrong, and I am right".
And I would laugh with them.
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jul 2008 23:30 Post subject: |
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| dangerouseddy wrote: | | well aliens probably exist, but i dont think any would be able to make it here considering the ridiculously large distances between solar systems. |
What makes you think every potential lifeform in the cosmos travels like a dog on foot ? All it takes is a deeper awareness of particle formation to project particles to any location you wish. Seems to me any advanced race flying around in our atmosphere wouldn't do it because they need to but to play in our atmospheres particular quality. Like checking out a new beach.
dominae .. do you think the life you have lead is the only life that has been lead ? Seems to me thinking earth is the origin of life is much the same. Idiocy ie self obsession is the error & the ignorance of mankind.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jul 2008 00:05 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jul 2008 01:10 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | do you think the life you have lead is the only life that has been lead ? Seems to me thinking earth is the origin of life is much the same. Idiocy ie self obsession is the error & the ignorance of mankind. |
I do not let fantasies and reality mix. I keep them separate.
I disagree, self-obsession is a virtue, one that you weild like the sword of an expert swordsman. For someone who profess to be a thinker, you certainly lack self-awareness.
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Apparently, there are people who are more important than the president and these people have their own agendas independent of the will of the people.
