So far, Aliens have only provided me vicariously with Entertainment...be it movies, books, television shows...
When an Alien gets up in my face and interrupts my way of life, I'll assess the threat and act accordingly -- until then, I'll leave debating it to people who can actually drive the debate in a direction and come up with conclusions, instead of bashing each-other.
I do not let fantasies and reality mix. I keep them separate.
I disagree, self-obsession is a virtue, one that you weild like the sword of an expert swordsman. For someone who profess to be a thinker, you certainly lack self-awareness.
Your just trying to justify your own need to feel important. drop it.
Is it fantasy to keep the door open to data about potential new life originating someplace other than earth ? Does keeping an open mind = living in fantasy ? Seems to me both those who insist aliens exist without grounds, & those who insist aliens don't exist are being equally irrational. The rational course Imo is to keep an open mind & refrain from making any final judgment calls until the data is undeniable.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Your just trying to justify your own need to feel important. drop it.
Hypocrite. You're doing the same while asking me to stop it.
Quote:
Is it fantasy to keep the door open to data about potential new life originating someplace other than earth ? Does keeping an open mind = living in fantasy ? Seems to me both those who insist aliens exist without grounds, & those who insist aliens don't exist are being equally irrational. The rational course Imo is to keep an open mind & refrain from making any final judgment calls until the data is undeniable.
I'm not sure whether it is that you simply do not comprehend English properly, or if it's just that you simply do not comprehend (which would be ironic for someone who claims to be a thinker seeking to understand).
If you truly are (which I think you are not) so inclined to understand; and that is your goal. Why is it that you always fail to understand anyone who has a different viewpoint from yours? Would it not be reasonable for you to "open your mind" to a different perspective to yours and see it's merits? Or do you claim to know more? If so... are you not really arguing against yourself here?
Anyways, it seems it is not clear to you what I have written several times now; so forgive me if you have a reading disability here are my claims again:
1. I do not propose to claim that aliens do not exist. I never did.
2. Keeping an open mind is not equal to living in a fantasy world.
Statement 2 has never been supported by me, why you would hypothesize that is beyond me. Perhaps you like to create flying windmills to fight against, a la Don Quixote? Believing yourself to be a hero for doing so?
Well, there are no windmills, and you certainly are no hero. Snap out of it.
dominae .. you devoted a whole post to asserting your right & I'm wrong, plus inserted a few personal insults. Learn.
Humans have a propensity to make things up rather than accept they don't know yet. Denial is just as much make believe as pretending little green men live on the moon.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
dominae .. you devoted a whole post to asserting your right & I'm wrong, plus inserted a few personal insults. Learn.
Did I? Tell me, where did I say "I'm right, you're wrong"? If you keep reducing arguments in these simpleton ways then there will be no argument. No, I never claimed "I am right", "You are wrong", I made several arguments which you never bothered with trying to counter. I've countered several of yours, but you seem to only use strawman arguments and put words in my mouths. Clearly the way of a self-entitled thinker (no matter how many rolleyes smileys you manage to pump out that won't make your reductions true).
As for the personal insults, do you aim to be a hypocrite - or does it come natural?
Quote:
Humans have a propensity to make things up rather than accept they don't know yet. Denial is just as much make believe as pretending little green men live on the moon.
You keep claiming things like these, and whenever someone challenges you, you become like a knot, tied up and defensive. Is it so hard to back up your claims with reason and argument? And why is it you're in denial by the way?
dominae .. where is your comment on the topic ? How do you suppose a person can prove data exists that has not yet been discovered ? We have a massive vacuum of questions regarding life beyond earth. No need to make things up. All we need do is keep investigating, refraining from passing judgment until we have solid data with which to do so.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Either that or you are so busy trying to prove your superior you have lost the plot.
CaptainCox wrote:
University Of Florida Professor Designs Plasma-Propelled Flying Saucer
LINK
And
LINK
Quote:
The saucer will hover and propel itself using electrodes that cover its surface to ionize the surrounding air into plasma. Gases (such as air, which has an equal number of positive and negative charges) become plasma when energy (such as heat or electricity) causes some of the gas's atoms to lose their negatively charged electrons, creating atoms with a positive charge, or positive ions, surrounded by the newly detached electrons. Using an onboard source of energy (such as a battery, ultracapacitor, solar panel or any combination thereof), the electrodes will send an electrical current into the plasma, causing the plasma to push against the neutral (noncharged) air surrounding the craft, theoretically generating enough force for liftoff and movement in different directions (depending on where on the craft's surface you direct the electrical current).
Interesting ideas. I wonder if weight will be a problem ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Interesting ideas. I wonder if weight will be a problem ?
That will depend on the impulse provided by the plasma because batteries are not very efficient when it comes to Energy Density. And if this idea ever took off, the effects of ionising gas in the atmosphere on a large scale would have to be studied in detail. Ofcourse it wouldn't have any use in space travel, atleast not in this form although ion rockets have been used before.
But with regard to inter-stellar travel, I don't think conventional (Newtonian) methods of motion will have any meaningful impact. The problem is the vastness of the distances involved and even travelling at the speed of light (if we ever understand the physics of matter as it approaches light-speed) won't be fast enough to travel the voids of space. It will require some sort of travel without motion and that is (for the time being) the domain of sci-fi.
Its all about comparing & reflecting, better/worse, winner/looser, superior/inferior. round & round you go.
What are you trying to say here ChinUp? Are you trying to say that comparing and reflecting, eg. trying to determine whether something is better or worse is a bad thing?
ChinUp wrote:
dominae wrote:
Well, not really. We have no evidence to support that life originated anywhere else, whereas we have plenty that it originated here. Rationality is using what means you have to construct a theory, contrary to religious speculation that uses supposition as an argument (full of maybe's, if's and could's).
Am i to think you are under the impression the rational course is one of self obsession ? That all you are willing to acknowledge exists is what you already know exists ? Where is the call for reason when you are so busy avoiding having to think ?
Perhaps this is a language-barrier, because you keep putting words in my (and others who disagree with you) mouth. I never spoke of any self-obsession, that is your own conclusion. It reveals more about what you think, than what I do.
From what I see here is that you:
* Want to claim that something exists that is not known to exist.
* That any criticism against such existence is "blind science".
* That "thinking" somehow resolves the conundrum of something's existence.
---
I have already previously stated that I am willing to agree to that there may be other life in space. But that speculations around it is fantasy. It's like believing that there's an invisible man living in the sky, and then speculating about whether it is here to do us good or evil.
I agree that such philosophical ventures can be stimulating, but to think that something you have imagined is equally as real as we are; based upon pure speculation isn't really using your mind, if you start to believe that your dreams and fantasies really are real and start living up as if they are, you really get involved in self-obsession. Because it's only about you, isn't it? If you fantasize about something and get stimulated by it, it's a self-indulgence. And of course that's alright. It's a free universe.
It's when you start to think that these fantasies do not need to stand up to critical thinking, and are to be viewed as equally true as the fact that this is a text, written on an internet-forum, that you no longer have claim to be a rational person. An idea based on speculation and fantasy remain such until it is as real as this text, can be discerned by anyone (not through equal fantasy or speculation, but viewed with our available faculties).
Now, as for your criticism against science (again), science is exactly what I describe to you here. It's about making observations, documenting them, reflecting/criticising them, and keeping them available to the world (essentially). No real scientist ever claim that their proven theories are the final truth, and if you ever will have any experience in the world of science you should discover such, that it's really only nature-science that really concern themselves with ultimate truths (such as 1+1=2 is always true). The rest of science are always open to that a theory can be disproven (as it has throughout the history of science).
However, many scientists would laugh at someone claiming to know something to be true, but didn't have any other data than "because it might be", or "because it could be", or the naïve notion of "because scientists are wrong, and I am right".
And I would laugh with them.
after reading this it's clear to me that you did not watch the video. There is no fantasy or speculation involved. That is what your government wants you to think ...
It will require some sort of travel without motion and that is (for the time being) the domain of sci-fi.
Don't ideas travel without motion ? How much more than an idea is a physical being ? Back to particle physics I guess. When we can make out what particles make up a persons identity as well as their physical form we will be far closer to travel without motion I think.
I've heard tales of old england that say stones used to be used to travel from one place to another, walk into a stone & come out from another stone in another place. I wonder if there is any truth to it, & how it could have worked. Nepalese mysticism tells of people being able to leave their bodies & travel the world, leaving their body's behind in a kind of stasis. I wonder what truth their is to that, wonder what data one could acquire without a physical body or pockets. How it could be verified if it was acquired from places we cannot reach mechanically.
I think we should look into all forms of travel humans have experimented with, not just the mechanical methods. Hasn't quantum physics found entanglement to be very likely to exist & thus a potential mode of transport in the future ?
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
It will require some sort of travel without motion and that is (for the time being) the domain of sci-fi.
Don't ideas travel without motion ? How much more than an idea is a physical being ? Back to particle physics I guess. When we can make out what particles make up a persons identity as well as their physical form we will be far closer to travel without motion I think.
I've heard tales of old england that say stones used to be used to travel from one place to another, walk into a stone & come out from another stone in another place. I wonder if there is any truth to it, & how it could have worked. Nepalese mysticism tells of people being able to leave their bodies & travel the world, leaving their body's behind in a kind of stasis. I wonder what truth their is to that, wonder what data one could acquire without a physical body or pockets. How it could be verified if it was acquired from places we cannot reach mechanically.
I think we should look into all forms of travel humans have experimented with, not just the mechanical methods. Hasn't quantum physics found entanglement to be very likely to exist & thus a potential mode of transport in the future ?
LHC baby! Let's hope for some interesting developments when they start it up finally
after reading this it's clear to me that you did not watch the video. There is no fantasy or speculation involved. That is what your government wants you to think ...
Oh please, not fantasy? Not speculation. It's all a bunch of "I want to believe, so therefore it must be true" Put on your tinfoil hat now, they might be controlling your mind!
"Somewhere, in the back of your mind you've always known it was true" Fantasy
"With the aid of IR-photography, some UFO:s were invisible" Fantasy
"Critters!" Fantasy
"He calls it hi... "
"A UFO THAT IS IN THE INFRA RED SECTION, SHOWS A UFO!"
"Using this technology that is available... "
Then there's a bunch of senile old men blurting out the same jargon every evangelist, jehovas witness or religious fanatic has been saying.
And then the fear-mongering from Douglas McArthur, "Oh noes, the aliens will attack and we will all unite". Yeah, really? Supposition, speculation.
I agree, the video clips of dots discernable on camera is entertaining, and it makes you want to believe. But some dots does neither confirm or deny the existence of UFO:s.
Even the bloody title "The greatest story ever denied" is full of so much speculation and fantasy it's not funny. It's the same with all conspiracists, they all use vague video clips (which are always blurry) .
Then again even if we took away all the light-reflections, the man-made fabrications (lamp-reflections on a window, and whatnot) of course there ARE U-F-O:s, except they aren't necessarily of "alien" origin. They can be fighter jets, missiles, stealth fighters.
I mean, with so many people willing to believe in an invisible man in the sky; and bearing witness of seeing "things", with all the "I've seen ghosts"-videos with "dead" people appearing blurred on a camera. To just sign under that these things are true based on this... is just, wow...
I mean, I can understand the need to WANT to believe, but to believe that something is absolutely, undeniably true based on these fantasies is just buying in to the same type of rhetoric that's been used in any field "documenting" the supernatural. Like I said previously, it might be true... but I am highly sceptical, especially based on the type of data displayed in these videos.
And don't think I don't want to believe, I've been a Sci-Fi fan all my life, watching TV-series with aliens and spaceships (EVE-Online is my favourite game). I want it to be true also, but I never have bought into these type of videos. Videos that for instance tried to make it reasonable that man never set foot on the moon. It's just fantasy, speculation based on people's desire to discover something that isn't already known - they believe it so much they literally start seeing things.
Also, why the heck is it 70% of the data supplied in this supposed "documentary" (A la Michael Moore) comes from the 1940's? And why is it that in that entire time, with all the people watching the sky, seeing UFO:s, there hasn't been anyone able to make a clear shot. Why is it media hasn't confirmed it, several times (oh please don't give me any tinfoil-hattery government conspiracy bullshit, there are more than one country in this world). Why is it most of these reports come from the USA? I know it's the greatest nation in the universe... but really, us inferior peoples of other countries - are we unable to perceive these things? Or do we have to "believe" first?
Nah, things like this would make media. It would be headline news, our capitalist society would jump straight at it - if there were money to be made based on fantasy, there would be profiteers lined up, especially in news media. Whoever covered a credible story like would make any media network make a shitload of dough. But no, the money instead falls in the fantasy genre. The money instead is made in the same field of TV-Shop, or (more to my liking) good Science-Fiction movies.
I find Star Trek more trustworthy than this bunch of hokum.
Well I've watched the video trying to keep an open mind...but I don't know what to make of it.
First of all, I don't know the source, I don't know who's directly responsible for directing the interviews, gathering up the material, etc.
If the people in this video are real (their identities) and their claim to the congress is real too, some of the things mentioned DO interest me.
The ability to eliminate some of our biggest energy problems? why say that in such a cryptic way and go back to ranting about what the government doesn't tell us.
I don't need people to tell me that the government isn't telling me something, of course it isn't, I could put on a video on YouTube and say that the "government" isn't telling us everything and be 100% right...but how is that relevant? they need to be a little more down-to-earth (no pun intended) with what they're telling us (I mean whoever's responsible for this video.)
Until they come up with valid, undeniable proof of their message, and produce some results in a manner that isn't all talk, what separates them from other hoobajoo Alien doom-sayers?
Keeping an open mind is crucial in all walks of life, but actions speak louder than words and for now we have nothing relevant to divert our attention to. (or perhaps nothing that I know of, so correct me If I'm wrong.)
Don't ideas travel without motion ? How much more than an idea is a physical being ? Back to particle physics I guess. When we can make out what particles make up a persons identity as well as their physical form we will be far closer to travel without motion I think.
I wasn't referring to anything metaphysical but just wanted to highlight the limitations of even the fastest speeds achievable by newtonian motion. And ideas do have a real world velocity equal to the speed of neural impulses through the body/brain which is fast but nothing spectacular.
ChinUp wrote:
Nepalese mysticism tells of people being able to leave their bodies & travel the world, leaving their body's behind in a kind of stasis. I wonder what truth their is to that, wonder what data one could acquire without a physical body or pockets. How it could be verified if it was acquired from places we cannot reach mechanically.
I think you're referring to the Tibetan monks described in the 'Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East'. I never knew what to make of that book when I finally managed to finish reading it on my third attempt. So much information was presented without any thought given to its impact on the reader. I want the feats described in that book to be true but I've reconciled myself to the contrary.
So unfortunately space travel will remain very limited till someone comes up with a method mere mortals can use without evolving/ascending to some higer plane.
I wasn't referring to anything metaphysical but just wanted to highlight the limitations of even the fastest speeds achievable by newtonian motion. And ideas do have a real world velocity equal to the speed of neural impulses through the body/brain which is fast but nothing spectacular.
So our identities don't really exist ? Ideas are trapped in our heads ? I see our identities & the real world spread of ideas as anything but non-physical personally. Just because we cannot isolate th physicality of something doesn't mean it has no physicality, to think it doesn't just because we cant find it yet, is ignorant in the extreme.
swingman wrote:
I think you're referring to the Tibetan monks described in the 'Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East'. I never knew what to make of that book when I finally managed to finish reading it on my third attempt. So much information was presented without any thought given to its impact on the reader. I want the feats described in that book to be true but I've reconciled myself to the contrary.
i don't know that book, said stories can be found wherever stories of mysticism can be found. Again because we have no way of isolating the individual within the physical shell, we have no way of verifying claims by individuals who say they can travel beyond their physical form. Like i said how can we verify claims of being able to view say the surface of Jupiter's moons by a mystic, when we have no other records to check them by ? Its a catch 22 cerated by our need for mechanical solutions, if we wait until we can mechanically acquire data about the surface of said moon of Jupiter & find the mystic was dead on, its too late. We are dependent on the mechanical verification so any alternative mode of discovery is stifled.
swingman wrote:
So unfortunately space travel will remain very limited till someone comes up with a method mere mortals can use without evolving/ascending to some higher plane.
What does mortality have to do with bridging the gap between the known & the newly discovered ?
Hellbeans seems to me a couple assertions where made beyond the gov isn't telling us everything. Be open to the possibility UFO's are creatures. The moon isn't being journeyed back to for some reason.
I wonder about the whole thing about alien tech being used to in modern tech. Why hide such tech, the pubic wouldn't believe it was actually alien, unless a reputed scientist told them too.
"Most of the change we think we see in life is due to truths being in & out of favor." ~ Frost
Edgar Mitchel (the sixth man to walk on the Moon) on Radio "WE HAVE BEEN VISITED!, UFO's are REAL!"
RADIO CHAT
We are for sure on the 3rd leg of disclosure...what the F...will you guys wake up when its in the crappy tabloids or WHAT
Same story here, but I think people are blind to the real conspiracy...
"Dr Mitchell, along with with Apollo 14 commander Alan Shepard, holds the record for the longest ever moon walk, at nine hours and 17 minutes following their 1971 mission."
Stargate names! That can't be a coincidence, I bet there just happens to be a Colonel O'Neill in USAF involved in this, too!
Same story here, but I think people are blind to the real conspiracy...
"Dr Mitchell, along with with Apollo 14 commander Alan Shepard, holds the record for the longest ever moon walk, at nine hours and 17 minutes following their 1971 mission."
Stargate names! That can't be a coincidence, I bet there just happens to be a Colonel O'Neill in USAF involved in this, too!
I lost faith in stephen greer when he started hosting hilltop gatherings to sing and listen for feedback from ufo's flying in the sky...
There is alot of should we dare say it "evidence, or talk from old seniors in high places" but nothing ever has been confirmed, no really it has not?
Its the same as all these ufo's over cities (at night might I add) when its something major.. And not one proper photo apart from "lights in the sky" ?
If everyone was that bothered and wanted proof every major city where these things are supposed to be happening.. WOULD, on the top of high buildings have public mounted telescopes, high mag ones at that, along with every big town city having some sort of projectile that can be fired into the air at the "target area" and take infared pictures...
hey failing that someone wearing a backpack with rockets should just strap on and fly towards it with camera firing off constantly.. then parachute back down when done..
Now strange stuff does happen, but im yet to see fully conclusive proof, its all maybe could be etc etc.. I have read and have watched all the project stuff/camelot stuff/radio broadcasts with people on the shows.. But end of day there is still nothing...
Cuz whatever the reality of the situation is, us, the people have ultimatatly nothing. Reading all of that people testimonies make me hope that maybe we, as people, aren't doomed after all!
Cuz whatever the reality of the situation is, us, the people have ultimatatly nothing. Reading all of that people testimonies make me hope that maybe we, as people, aren't doomed after all!
Cuz whatever the reality of the situation is, us, the people have ultimatatly nothing. Reading all of that people testimonies make me hope that maybe we, as people, aren't doomed after all!
i have some bad news for ya: we are all doomed :(
Off course we are all fucked that's the way it is !
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And ideas do have a real world velocity equal to the speed of neural impulses through the body/brain which is fast but nothing spectacular.
