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| Should we allow women only gyms? |
| Yes |
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30% |
[ 22 ] |
| No |
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38% |
[ 28 ] |
| Only if we allow Men only gyms |
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31% |
[ 23 ] |
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| Total Votes : 73 |
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:32 Post subject: |
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If you dress like a whore, you gunna be treated like a whore 
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:37 Post subject: |
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once I just took my sister to the gym and when I came to take her home the women in charge thought I was peeking and started with all her blabla
ahh some people
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:38 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | Do women wear thongs in egypt at the beach? |
They wear a diving like suite in open beaches, but most of them just swim in women only beaches. |
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:40 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | Do women wear thongs in egypt at the beach? |
They wear a diving like suite in open beaches, but most of them just swim in women only beaches. |
awww, that sucks man. If I vacation in egypt and go to beach, I wont see any hotties walking around barely clothed (like here in NA)? Do I have to go to an all male beach? |
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:46 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:49 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | | How is a woman to blame for being in a swimsuit at a swimming pool? You would have her wear a ninja-tent or better yet segregate. So you would rather restrict the freedoms of the victims rather than punish the perpetrators who are still in the caveman period? That logis is so twisted it's like ..... Sorry I can't think of a situation that is so upside down. |
A woman who choses to wear a sexually provocative outfit, knowing very well how it affects men around her, has to bear responsibility for such choice.
| swingman wrote: | | We were having a semblance of a discussion until you decided to hold up Saudi Arabia as a shining example but now that shred of credibility is gone. |
Saudi Arabia may not be the greatest place, but from personal experience, it's one of the safest places to live if you're a woman who doesn't want to be sexually harassed. |
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 19:56 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | A woman who choses to wear a sexually provocative outfit, knowing very well how it affects men around her, has to bear responsibility for such choice. |
It's nice to see how you really think behind the semblance of being an educated muslim. It really is no different from some bearded extremist in a turban in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
| compubrain3000 wrote: | | swingman wrote: | | We were having a semblance of a discussion until you decided to hold up Saudi Arabia as a shining example but now that shred of credibility is gone. |
Saudi Arabia may not be the greatest place, but from personal experience, it's one of the safest places to live if you're a woman who doesn't want to be sexually harassed. |
Sometimes the price is too high or in other words, the cure is worse than the disease.
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X_Dror
Posts: 4957
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 20:01 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | swingman wrote: | | How is a woman to blame for being in a swimsuit at a swimming pool? You would have her wear a ninja-tent or better yet segregate. So you would rather restrict the freedoms of the victims rather than punish the perpetrators who are still in the caveman period? That logis is so twisted it's like ..... Sorry I can't think of a situation that is so upside down. |
A woman who choses to wear a sexually provocative outfit, knowing very well how it affects men around her, has to bear responsibility for such choice.
| swingman wrote: | | We were having a semblance of a discussion until you decided to hold up Saudi Arabia as a shining example but now that shred of credibility is gone. |
Saudi Arabia may not be the greatest place, but from personal experience, it's one of the safest places to live if you're a woman who doesn't want to be sexually harassed. |
That is if you're a women who want to be a walking tent and live under strict religious rules.
The women of the western world don't need to wear a tent in order to be safe from sexual harassment. Men in the western world can actually control themselves, can you believe that?
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 20:04 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | Do women wear thongs in egypt at the beach? |
They wear a diving like suite in open beaches, but most of them just swim in women only beaches. |
I had no idea. Are the womens beach sub-par to the mens or are all the beaches nice. How do they stop all the men from hiding in the bushes and looking?
Here were have muslim younger girls up to about 17 or so wear their clothes in the pool. They seem to be having just as much fun as the rest of the kids, they watch over their younger sibbling more tho. Sihk women wear dark tee-shirts and long strech pants. There is one older, maybe 70 yr old Sihk woman I have seen for 3 or 4 yrs. She wears shorts that are soo baggy they puff up and her bum shows through the leg. She could care less. She is a bossy little thing and I get a kick outta her. She told my friend she was a pig in punjai once and whacked her hands. My friend left garbage around the showers. She noticed I was always picking it up and one day I didn't.
I think my number one reason for gyms for women is prob about religion. I would like to see that teenager I mentioned above be able to take swimming lessons and not have to be weighed down by heavy water logged clothes. I get so much enjoyment outta swimming and I would like everyone to be able to do that. It is about quality of life.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 27th Jul 2008 21:12 Post subject: |
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I was joking pistol, geez
I dont judge anyone based on appearance. Appearance means nothing. A person is defined by their actions and how they conduct themselves. Not by how they dress, what music they listen to, what they watch on tv etc etc
I judge people based solely on their interactions with me. If someone is nice to me and polite etc they could be the most ruthless killer and I wouldnt care. As long as they treat me with respect and such, it makes no difference how else that person conducts themselves toward others.
And as for the club thing, not all girls dress like whores when they go clubbing. Some do yes, but not all. And it all depends on the club you go to
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 00:07 Post subject: |
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| X_Dror wrote: | | Men in the western world can actually control themselves, can you believe that? |
What a load of crap.
| Quote: | Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country
#3 Australia
#5 Canada
#9 United States
#12 New Zealand
#13 United Kingdom
#14 Spain
#15 France
#18 Norway
#21 Finland
#22 Netherlands
#23 Denmark
#24 Germany |
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita |
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 00:11 Post subject: |
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| swingman wrote: | | It's nice to see how you really think behind the semblance of being an educated muslim. It really is no different from some bearded extremist in a turban in Afghanistan/Pakistan. |
I'm just stating the obvious.
| compubrain3000 wrote: | | Sometimes the price is too high or in other words, the cure is worse than the disease. |
I know a lot of girls who like the Saudi lifestyle way more than any liberal country.
They simply feel safer. |
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 00:16 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | I had no idea. Are the womens beach sub-par to the mens or are all the beaches nice. How do they stop all the men from hiding in the bushes and looking? |
Women get the nicest beaches, with security and all.
At my club, they get the pools for themselves twice a week.
| pistolshrimp wrote: | | I think my number one reason for gyms for women is prob about religion. I would like to see that teenager I mentioned above be able to take swimming lessons and not have to be weighed down by heavy water logged clothes. I get so much enjoyment outta swimming and I would like everyone to be able to do that. It is about quality of life. |
I would like to think that some women just want to swim or work out without being subjected to sexual harassment, regardless of their religious beliefs. |
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 00:22 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | What is sexually provocative to one may be different to someone else. Take catholic school girl uniforms. A lot of men find those provocative but come on, they are worn by kids. |
It depends mainly on the culture. There are things that most people would agree are provocative.
I'm not trying to blame sexual harassment on women. All i'm trying to say is that there is one factor that women can control in the situation, and that's how sexually provocative they want to be. |
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frno
Posts: 99
Location: uk
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 03:59 Post subject: |
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 04:26 Post subject: |
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The number given to Australia is incorrect. That is the number of Sexual assaults not rape. Rape is included in the sexual assault figure for australia as a part of how they gather violent crime stats, while the US does not include sexual assault only rape figures. Don't judge to quickly. Check with how each country collects and defines violent crime before you pass judgement.
This refers to many of these countries on the list including Canada.
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X_Dror
Posts: 4957
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 05:05 Post subject: |
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He also forgot that women inside a religious society are many times afraid to report anything against the men of their society, especially when it's rape she's reporting, which will make people call her a whore, and worse.
These western countries are in the first places because their people actually report about these cases. We all know how religious communities are shutting people up when they may expose something that will make the community look bad.
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 05:47 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | A woman who choses to wear a sexually provocative outfit, knowing very well how it affects men around her, has to bear responsibility for such choice. |
Your sick! You would excuse a man of something such as rape based on what the woman wore at the time of it happening? I don't care if a woman walks butt naked down a dark ally at night no one has the right to touch her in any form of way.
Also be honest here your people blame the woman no matter what she wears I've seen it in Iraq. Girl gets kidnapped , girl gets raped, ransom is paid to bring her back, she is released and then killed by her own family because she was raped. These are fully dressed women not even showing a strand of freaking hair.
Honestly your the last type of people who should even open their mouth. Hell I bet your going to try to use the damn excuse "well the girl shouldn't have been walking alone or with a male" or some shit like that. When in many cases they were being accompanied by a male family member who tends to get roughed up as they take the girl. and even in the cases that they are alone it doesn't justify the action.
What really gets me though if your culture and religion covers the women up like if they are some sort of hideous burn victims. When in fact the real reason is because your religion teaches to avoid temptation so you cover these women up as if they are shameful and then when you turn around and abuse one you then blame the woman! The way your people operate they act like they have no self control and can't resist temptation and when they do the evil act of giving in its anyone but their own fault.
I know I may get a ban for what I just said But I know that its 100% true so I stand by my word.
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 06:09 Post subject: |
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| NuclearShadow wrote: | | compubrain3000 wrote: | | A woman who choses to wear a sexually provocative outfit, knowing very well how it affects men around her, has to bear responsibility for such choice. |
Your sick! You would excuse a man of something such as rape based on what the woman wore at the time of it happening? I don't care if a woman walks butt naked down a dark ally at night no one has the right to touch her in any form of way.
Also be honest here your people blame the woman no matter what she wears I've seen it in Iraq. Girl gets kidnapped , girl gets raped, ransom is paid to bring her back, she is released and then killed by her own family because she was raped. These are fully dressed women not even showing a strand of freaking hair.
Honestly your the last type of people who should even open their mouth. Hell I bet your going to try to use the damn excuse "well the girl shouldn't have been walking alone or with a male" or some shit like that. When in many cases they were being accompanied by a male family member who tends to get roughed up as they take the girl. and even in the cases that they are alone it doesn't justify the action.
What really gets me though if your culture and religion covers the women up like if they are some sort of hideous burn victims. When in fact the real reason is because your religion teaches to avoid temptation so you cover these women up as if they are shameful and then when you turn around and abuse one you then blame the woman! The way your people operate they act like they have no self control and can't resist temptation and when they do the evil act of giving in its anyone but their own fault.
I know I may get a ban for what I just said But I know that its 100% true so I stand by my word. |
He isn't saying he does it, he is only saying that the thought it out there. You shouldn't be giving a guy shit because he is saying what he sees.
You can't blame him, he is only one guy but at least he is here and asking questions. He is on his own journey for his own truth, He has been here for at least a couple of years now. Same with some of the other israelsi's. They would be bored to tears by now if they were not humanitariants at heart. They are just trying to figure things out like the rest of us only their life is so much more complcated. Flame me away at my post!
I really hope this thread doesn't get closed down because I want everyone to argue it out and reach some type of trust or understanding. hahah That will never happen.
Religion and gyms here are an important part of western society I guess. We need them because people need choices. Not everybody is the same. It doesn't matter who is right because I think no one is right when it comes to this. People are too passionate about what THEY believe is in, and what they think think is right.
edit: super bad spelling and grammer.
Last edited by pistolshrimp on Mon, 28th Jul 2008 06:57; edited 1 time in total
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 09:02 Post subject: |
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| compubrain3000 wrote: | | X_Dror wrote: | | Men in the western world can actually control themselves, can you believe that? |
What a load of crap.
| Quote: | Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country
#3 Australia
#5 Canada
#9 United States
#12 New Zealand
#13 United Kingdom
#14 Spain
#15 France
#18 Norway
#21 Finland
#22 Netherlands
#23 Denmark
#24 Germany |
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita |
you kidding me ? this can't be right cause every day i tune into the news at 5 pm there are always rapes , like there must at least 1000 per year , of kids/old people/women
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 09:51 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: | The number given to Australia is incorrect. That is the number of Sexual assaults not rape. Rape is included in the sexual assault figure for australia as a part of how they gather violent crime stats, while the US does not include sexual assault only rape figures. Don't judge to quickly. Check with how each country collects and defines violent crime before you pass judgement.
This refers to many of these countries on the list including Canada. |
I'm not judging anything, i'm just pointing out the fact that rape and sexual harassment is just as bad, if not worse, in western countries than in Arab countries.
Nobody had any problem passing judgment about the survey on Egypt, which even included flirting as part of sexual harassment.
Anyway, here are more statistics.
| Quote: | A recent survey on date rape showed that 60% of Canadian college-aged males indicated that they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they would not get caught. (Helen Lenskyj, "An Analysis of Violence Against Women: A Manual for Educators and Administrators," Toronto: Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, 1992)
According to Statistics Canada, only 6% of all sexual assaults are reported to the police. (Statistics Canada, "The Violence Against Women Survey," The Daily, November 18, 1993)
A 1993 survey found that one-half of all Canadian women have experienced at least one incident of sexual or physical violence. Almost 60% of these women were the targets of more than one of these incidents. (Statistics Canada, "The Violence Against Women Survey," The Daily, November 18, 1993)
Statistics show one in four Canadian women will be sexually assaulted during her lifetime. Half of these assaults will be against women under the age of 16. (J. Brickman and J. Briere, "Incidence of Rape and Sexual Assault in an Urban Canadian Population," The International Journal of Women's Studies, Vol. 7, no. 3, 1984)
US Statistics
Somewhere in America, a woman is sexually assaulted every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.
In 1996, 307 000 women were the victim of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics,U.S. Department of Justice, 1997.]
In 1996, only 31% of rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials - less than one in every three. [National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1997.] |
http://www.elitecanada.com/pdfs/cnd_rape_stats.pdf |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 10:31 Post subject: |
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| NuclearShadow wrote: | | Your sick! You would excuse a man of something such as rape based on what the woman wore at the time of it happening? I don't care if a woman walks butt naked down a dark ally at night no one has the right to touch her in any form of way. |
Yes, no one has the right to touch her.
But are you seriously telling me that if this scenario were to happen in your country, the girl would remain untouched?
Who wouldn't think that she was asking for it?
| NuclearShadow wrote: | Also be honest here your people blame the woman no matter what she wears I've seen it in Iraq. Girl gets kidnapped , girl gets raped, ransom is paid to bring her back, she is released and then killed by her own family because she was raped. These are fully dressed women not even showing a strand of freaking hair.
Honestly your the last type of people who should even open their mouth. Hell I bet your going to try to use the damn excuse "well the girl shouldn't have been walking alone or with a male" or some shit like that. When in many cases they were being accompanied by a male family member who tends to get roughed up as they take the girl. and even in the cases that they are alone it doesn't justify the action.
What really gets me though if your culture and religion covers the women up like if they are some sort of hideous burn victims. When in fact the real reason is because your religion teaches to avoid temptation so you cover these women up as if they are shameful and then when you turn around and abuse one you then blame the woman! The way your people operate they act like they have no self control and can't resist temptation and when they do the evil act of giving in its anyone but their own fault. |
Your problem is that you generalize what you saw in tribal, war torn Iraq upon all other Muslim countries.
Yes, some people will just blame the girl, but that's a very small minority.
Rapists are punished by death around here, so you can't really claim that society is soft on them.
There is a big difference between the Muslims and the west in that Muslim culture dictates that men and women refrain from extramarital relations.
You may think that it's easy, but is isn't. |
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ChinUp
Posts: 5503
Location: 51.7° N ' 1.1° W
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 10:45 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | I have been in such circomstances, where the woman was naked with over twenty naked men in a hot spring. The probability of the woman being raped was zero. |
And you figured that out how?
| ChinUp wrote: | The problem is many folks like yourself are willing to entertain the notion that you have a right to sexually assault a woman given the right circumstances. 
Its sad that people live in such sexually repressed atmospheres that they feel they must resort to force in order to engage in intimate relations with the opposite sex.  |
I'm rational enough to realize that a lot of men would use force to get sex if they are provoked enough.
You can continue to live in your dream world, but this wouldn't change the reality of things
| Quote: | | A recent survey on date rape showed that 60% of Canadian college-aged males indicated that they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they would not get caught. (Helen Lenskyj, "An Analysis of Violence Against Women: A Manual for Educators and Administrators," Toronto: Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, 1992) |
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 10:48 Post subject: |
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| ChinUp wrote: | | Phluxed wrote: | The number given to Australia is incorrect. That is the number of Sexual assaults not rape. Rape is included in the sexual assault figure for australia as a part of how they gather violent crime stats, while the US does not include sexual assault only rape figures. Don't judge to quickly. Check with how each country collects and defines violent crime before you pass judgement.
This refers to many of these countries on the list including Canada. |
Read the small print
| Quote: | DEFINITION: Total recorded rapes. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.
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I'm assuming here you are agreeing with me, it seems like it anyway.
Also, Compu, sexual assault cases include: Frat boys making inappropriate comments towards girls, accidental breast brushing in the workplace etc. Granted, some of these aren't exactly kosher, but they certainly aren't even close to the same level as forcibly having intercourse with someone of the opposite sex (there are rape charges put on women as well) |
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| Posted: Mon, 28th Jul 2008 10:53 Post subject: |
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| Phluxed wrote: | | Also, Compu, sexual assault cases include: Frat boys making inappropriate comments towards girls, accidental breast brushing in the workplace etc. Granted, some of these aren't exactly kosher, but they certainly aren't even close to the same level as forcibly having intercourse with someone of the opposite sex (there are rape charges put on women as well) |
I do realize that. I just posted the table in response to X_Dror's ignorant claim, and i think that i proved my point.
| X_Dror wrote: | | Men in the western world can actually control themselves, can you believe that? |
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no offense but thats kinda like dangling a sausage in front of 50 starving wolves whilst you are lathered in blood.
