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 Posted: Sat, 22nd Nov 2008 22:12 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | Pc games arent dying...if anything, they are coming back imo |
pretty much , eventho we got used to recieve shitty ports with horrible performance and bugs , there's some good stuff these lately and coming up
PC gaming will never die because it's 99% reason why most upgrade their PC's or empty their pockets on cutting edge hardware
if the business dies , so will nVIDIA , ATI , and PC sales will reduce incredibly
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Nov 2008 23:30 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | Freakshow wrote: | | The main problem for PC Games these days is that you need and 1000$ PC to play the games - at least in an medium resolution at least for 1 year. |
where the heck do you buy your pc ?
my PC (the part needed for gaming anyway, not gonna count all my hdd's e.g.)
is worth 1000$ an i can play every single game out there in highest settings with usually 4xAA (which is more than enough) with good framerates ...
and the argument in itself is flawed, since 2-10 years ago, you payed considerably more for the same performance/cost ratio from today. WAY WAY more (example, 8800GTX , it costs like double the todays 9800GTX , less performance , higher price)
HDD's are like cheap cookies, get a handful, get some free ( 1TB for around 100$ here)
Same with ram, 1GB sticks of good Brand ram, 50-70$
Most expansive in my PC is actually the screen, a acer 22" WS , but its also the thing you wont have to change for the longest (i had my old screen for like 7 years lol). + i use my pc as media center and anything (i dont own a tv) and watch shows, movies etc on it, play games, listen music, work with. So all in all, those ~1000$ are probably a rather good invest ... 5 years ago, i wouldn't have had a pc nearly as good (again, cost/performance ratio)
So anyway , if anything, the prices of pc's today would be a push FOR oc market, not against it. |
I dont know what your argue is tho. I said you need a 1000$ Pc to be updtodate and play the highend games and you proofed it while saying
30$ the case
70$ the powersupply
100$ the hdd
250$ the CPU
150$ the mainboard
100$ the RAM
100$ the OS
250$ an ok gfx
so its ~1000$ and it will be old shit for games play in like 18 months.
300$ X360 Elite and will be still elite in 2 years according to MS development news
400$ PS3
PC Game 50$
X360 Game 60$
PS3 Game 65$
Thats how parents see it when they have to decide console or usefull pc as console + game = 360$ and PC + Game > 1000$ as long as its not the 15's time Hoyle Card Games 
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Nov 2008 23:44 Post subject: |
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Do you buy your shit from Alienware or what? And 250$ = high end card from newegg.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 00:08 Post subject: |
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| djaoni wrote: | | Do you buy your shit from Alienware or what? And 250$ = high end card from newegg. |
I got my 9800GTX from newegg for $160... Soooo you can take off around $100 for the video card.
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Hierofan
Banned
Posts: 3807
Location: Internets
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 00:49 Post subject: |
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i really hate when games like stalker are being criticised as being to hard or to complex , just goes to show how dumbed down the current market of player is
games are supposed to be a challange , you should fucking die if you mess it up , not crawl under a rock and wait until you regenrate your health
hopefully , true combat simulators like ArmA 2 or OF 2 will be a real treat for PC player
ah , and luckly some companies still consider the PC version of their game as top priority
IMHO , i admire Valve , they really do support their main platform , and arent willing to stoop down any of their games to console level player
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 01:19 Post subject: |
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| Freakshow wrote: |
30$ the case --Sounds good
70$ the powersupply -- Sounds good
100$ the hdd -- 320gigs is $50
250$ the CPU --Whoa thats very expensive, Thats about a 3.4ghz dual core, very fast
150$ the mainboard -- No, more like $75 for a really good one
100$ the RAM -- No, $50 at most for 4 gigs of DDR2 PC2 6400
100$ the OS -- Sounds okay
250$ an ok gfx -- A very good gfx card actually, I would say $200 for a nice one
so its ~1000$ and it will be old shit for games play in like 18 months.
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Thats leaves me at just over 800 for a really nice video card with 4 gigs ram, 3.4ghz intel core 2 duo ready to play even including the OS. The thing your forgetting here is, guess what else is going to be "old shit" in 18 months. Your console.
Also think about that next computer, you would re-use the powersupply, the HD, maybe the ram (hasn't changed in a long time now), the OS, the case. I'm taking this into account for a dvd-drive as well even though thats only $25. When you go to build your next one you can get away with spending 400-500 and have a brand new machine speed wise.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 02:54 Post subject: |
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250$ for dual core? Make that quad core, D4rkKnight.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 03:22 Post subject: |
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As computers will always have usefulness outside of the gaming market, pc gaming will never die.
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poullou
Posts: 1746
Location: Internet Express
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 10:00 Post subject: |
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Pc gaming generates more revenue than the Ps3/xbox360 combined. Completely ignoring the revenue/profit margin concerning the hardware which is also FAR more profitable than consoles. Well at least ps3/xbox360.
PC is superior in every possible objective manner compared to consoles.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 17:56 Post subject: |
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PC gaming isn't dead, but it's being dominated by consoles. There is no way to deny that. Console game sales completely destroy it when comparing cross-platform titles.
There is a good reason that everyone is shifting to either multi-platform or outright console releases with maybe a port a year later. Console sales are king and piracy on PC makes it an afterthought. Once you get your bankroll then you can put a few people on a port version to milk some cash.
Just the way it is, until something else comes along that is PC only like MMOs we will have to deal with the dregs of the industry.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:15 Post subject: |
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| rhagz wrote: | | Console game sales completely destroy it when comparing cross-platform titles. |
They don't dominate jack shit. NPD sales data don't include digital sales, which is booming in PC gaming market, also NPD sales data is only for USA, PC gaming is more popular in Europe than in the US. It would be interesting to see the real sale numbers from all distribution methods combined. Only then we could know which platform destroys which. Yes there are some titles that are truly meant for console, so naturally they sell more on consoles, but titles like L4D, I highly doubt that x360 version will outsell PC.
C2D E6750 @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 4-4-4-12, GeForce GTX 260 c216 OC 896MB, 3.2TB, Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Xbox 360 Elite, PS2 Slim, Xbox
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:22 Post subject: |
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| Freakshow wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | | Freakshow wrote: | | The main problem for PC Games these days is that you need and 1000$ PC to play the games - at least in an medium resolution at least for 1 year. |
where the heck do you buy your pc ?
my PC (the part needed for gaming anyway, not gonna count all my hdd's e.g.)
is worth 1000$ an i can play every single game out there in highest settings with usually 4xAA (which is more than enough) with good framerates ...
and the argument in itself is flawed, since 2-10 years ago, you payed considerably more for the same performance/cost ratio from today. WAY WAY more (example, 8800GTX , it costs like double the todays 9800GTX , less performance , higher price)
HDD's are like cheap cookies, get a handful, get some free ( 1TB for around 100$ here)
Same with ram, 1GB sticks of good Brand ram, 50-70$
Most expansive in my PC is actually the screen, a acer 22" WS , but its also the thing you wont have to change for the longest (i had my old screen for like 7 years lol). + i use my pc as media center and anything (i dont own a tv) and watch shows, movies etc on it, play games, listen music, work with. So all in all, those ~1000$ are probably a rather good invest ... 5 years ago, i wouldn't have had a pc nearly as good (again, cost/performance ratio)
So anyway , if anything, the prices of pc's today would be a push FOR oc market, not against it. |
I dont know what your argue is tho. I said you need a 1000$ Pc to be updtodate and play the highend games and you proofed it while saying
30$ the case
70$ the powersupply
100$ the hdd
250$ the CPU
150$ the mainboard
100$ the RAM
100$ the OS
250$ an ok gfx
so its ~1000$ and it will be old shit for games play in like 18 months.
300$ X360 Elite and will be still elite in 2 years according to MS development news
400$ PS3
PC Game 50$
X360 Game 60$
PS3 Game 65$
Thats how parents see it when they have to decide console or usefull pc as console + game = 360$ and PC + Game > 1000$ as long as its not the 15's time Hoyle Card Games |
as marked above, you clearly said "in medium" and thats what my argument was based upon. For 1000$ , you get a highend pc these days, if you know how to buy properly.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:24 Post subject: |
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The most interesting question, for me, with regards to the next-next generation will be if the console revolution can maintain its popularity while being completely piracy free...
Judging by the PS3 and the lessons learned by MS, I think it's pretty safe to assume the next generation XBOX will not be broken?
Which will leave a lot of current 360 owners that openly pirate games faced with the prospect of a better looking version that they don't have to pay for...
Kind of interesting to see if it changes the market in any way?
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:33 Post subject: |
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Which I guess also raises the question of if developers decide to combat piracy by not releasing PC versions, this will surely affect the graphics card arms race, which is crucial to the technology that powers the consoles..
So the PC market is symbiotic with the console market I guess, and they can't let it die?
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:42 Post subject: |
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| Glottis wrote: | | rhagz wrote: | | Console game sales completely destroy it when comparing cross-platform titles. |
They don't dominate jack shit. NPD sales data don't include digital sales, which is booming in PC gaming market, also NPD sales data is only for USA, PC gaming is more popular in Europe than in the US. |
Yeah, they do.
DD is nice and all, but it clearly isn't as big as you think it is. Unless 5x more units are sold online than in retail locations, it's not even close.
And if online distribution was that big do you think we would be stuck with D2D and Steam and that's it? Companies would be scrambling to jump on the bandwagon. As it is, it takes a miracle to get a non-Valve game on Steam.
All you have to do is look at the charts, and not US only. Last month the highest selling PC game was Fallout in the UK.. and it wasn't even in the top 10 of all game sales.
FO3 sold nearly 400k units at the end of October on 360.. and less than 100k on PC. Do you think it sold 300% better on Steam than it did at the stores? I don't. You are free to believe so though.
I also don't get why people take it so personally... I don't own a console. I love PC games.. but I also am not naive and oblivious to the facts around me. It's okay, really. Don't be so insecure.
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M4trix
Posts: 9094
Location: Croatia, Adriatic coast (I can see ixi from here)
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:46 Post subject: |
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..
Last edited by M4trix on Sun, 31st Mar 2024 21:18; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:48 Post subject: |
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| rhagz wrote: | | Glottis wrote: | | rhagz wrote: | | Console game sales completely destroy it when comparing cross-platform titles. |
They don't dominate jack shit. NPD sales data don't include digital sales, which is booming in PC gaming market, also NPD sales data is only for USA, PC gaming is more popular in Europe than in the US. |
Yeah, they do.
DD is nice and all, but it clearly isn't as big as you think it is. Unless 5x more units are sold online than in retail locations, it's not even close.
And if online distribution was that big do you think we would be stuck with D2D and Steam and that's it? Companies would be scrambling to jump on the bandwagon. As it is, it takes a miracle to get a non-Valve game on Steam.
All you have to do is look at the charts, and not US only. Last month the highest selling PC game was Fallout in the UK.. and it wasn't even in the top 10 of all game sales.
FO3 sold nearly 400k units at the end of October on 360.. and less than 100k on PC. Do you think it sold 300% better on Steam than it did at the stores? I don't. You are free to believe so though.
I also don't get why people take it so personally... I don't own a console. I love PC games.. but I also am not naive and oblivious to the facts around me. It's okay, really. Don't be so insecure. |
Are you living under a rock? companies already jumped the bandwagon, EA downloader, Blizzard digital store, Codemasters digital store, Gametap, GoG (good old games). Do I need to go on? You are contradicting yourself...
C2D E6750 @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 4-4-4-12, GeForce GTX 260 c216 OC 896MB, 3.2TB, Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Xbox 360 Elite, PS2 Slim, Xbox
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tonizito
Posts: 51172
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:52 Post subject: |
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| rhagz wrote: | | As it is, it takes a miracle to get a non-Valve game on Steam. |
Wow, seriously?
Let's see: Total war series, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Brothers in Arms series, Call of Duty series, Call of Juarez, Company of Heroes, Crysis, Dark Messiah, Deus Ex series, Doom series, EVE online, Fear, Fallout3, FarCry series, Lost Planet, GTA series...
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 18:56 Post subject: |
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| Glottis wrote: |
Are you living under a rock? companies already jumped the bandwagon, EA downloader, Blizzard digital store, Codemasters digital store, Gametap, GoG (good old games). Do I need to go on? You are contradicting yourself... |
Well, if you have seen the numbers that those places sell.. you would realize why they aren't a factor.
Just ask your average gamer if he has even heard of the 'codemasters digital store' and they will likely answer 'who?'
You have to realize the boxes we live in do not represent the outside world at all.
| Quote: |
Let's see: Total war series, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Brothers in Arms series, Call of Duty series, Call of Juarez, Company of Heroes, Crysis, Dark Messiah, Deus Ex series, Doom series, EVE online, Fear, Fallout3, FarCry series, Lost Planet, GTA series...
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Which of those games launched on Steam?
90% of a games sales comes within the first few months. Anything that just appears there a year or more later is being milked for negligible numbers in the grand scheme of things.
Mostly because B&M stores refuse to stock it any longer.
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tonizito
Posts: 51172
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 19:10 Post subject: |
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| rhagz wrote: | Which of those games launched on Steam?
90% of a games sales comes within the first few months. Anything that just appears there a year or more later is being milked for negligible numbers in the grand scheme of things.
Mostly because B&M stores refuse to stock it any longer. |
Bioshock, COD4, CODWAW, Crysis Warhead, Dark Messiah, Assassin's Creed, BIA: Earned in Blood, Clive Barker's Jericho, Devil May Cry 3, Far Cry 2, Fallout 3, Grid, Lost Planet, Stalker Clear Sky, Sam & Max episodes, Silent Hill homecoming, Space Siege, Tomb Raider Underworld ( Anniversary too, I think ) and probably a couple more I'm not sure right now.
Future launches include Empire Total War, new PoP game, GTA4 and FEAR 2:Project Origin.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 19:27 Post subject: |
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How is cross-platform sales an indicator of pc gaming dieing?
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 19:42 Post subject: |
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PC gaming will die as soon as people stop playing the games, from what i've seen Pc gamers tend to latch on to the good quality games and stick with them, whole communities build up around the game and they live on for years, way after the console guys have got bored and moved on to the new flavour of the month.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 19:56 Post subject: |
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Look at the state in which games like Tomb Raider are being released and you know it's dying, now games also crash on consoles, something noone would want to believe in the PlayStation 1- and Xbox days....
It's not piracy that is killing it, it's lazy programmers.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 20:25 Post subject: |
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| rhagz wrote: | | Glottis wrote: |
Are you living under a rock? companies already jumped the bandwagon, EA downloader, Blizzard digital store, Codemasters digital store, Gametap, GoG (good old games). Do I need to go on? You are contradicting yourself... |
Well, if you have seen the numbers that those places sell.. you would realize why they aren't a factor. |
Let me put you this way, I bought 8 PC games this year, 6 of them were bought via digital distribution (Steam).
| PolkerTwo wrote: | Look at the state in which games like Tomb Raider are being released and you know it's dying, now games also crash on consoles, something noone would want to believe in the PlayStation 1- and Xbox days....
It's not piracy that is killing it, it's lazy programmers. |
Yeah back in the day gaming industry was just a bunch of smart geeks who mostly worked in it for fun. They didn't mind some overtime to make the game as perfect as possible, coz they were gamers themsevles. Now it gotten so mainstream that it's just another boring job for most people in the industry. Most of them don't even like gaming, maybe that's one of the reasons why it's going down the shitter.
C2D E6750 @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 4-4-4-12, GeForce GTX 260 c216 OC 896MB, 3.2TB, Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Xbox 360 Elite, PS2 Slim, Xbox
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24481
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Nov 2008 01:28 Post subject: |
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PC gaming isn't dying or going to die. The simple fact is that there are still millions with PC's that want to play games, thus the market for PC gaming is there. We're currently in a transition phase (no idea how long it will last though) where practices, cross-platform development and other structural changes aren't optimal for the market. Part of this is due to consoles. It's a completely different market and publishers have better projections and statistics to guide them when it comes to planning projects. That's why there's a tendency to copy that strategy to the PC market, and we're stuck in the middle because the PC market isn't 1:1 compatible with the strategy of console development.
People tend to treat this subject with emotions instead of logic and common sense. If there's people willing to buy games for PC you'll have publishers and developers willing to develop games for us. We're just in the middle of a global financial crisis, big publishers are changing their mode of operation, developers have a hard time doing what they want since they have to conform to the wishes of the publishers. Things will change (and we're in the middle of that change now which is why everyone is so worried).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"Thank you to God for making me an Atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Nov 2008 01:46 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | PC gaming isn't dying or going to die. The simple fact is that there are still millions with PC's that want to play games, thus the market for PC gaming is there. We're currently in a transition phase (no idea how long it will last though) where practices, cross-platform development and other structural changes aren't optimal for the market. Part of this is due to consoles. It's a completely different market and publishers have better projections and statistics to guide them when it comes to planning projects. That's why there's a tendency to copy that strategy to the PC market, and we're stuck in the middle because the PC market isn't 1:1 compatible with the strategy of console development.
People tend to treat this subject with emotions instead of logic and common sense. If there's people willing to buy games for PC you'll have publishers and developers willing to develop games for us. We're just in the middle of a global financial crisis, big publishers are changing their mode of operation, developers have a hard time doing what they want since they have to conform to the wishes of the publishers. Things will change (and we're in the middle of that change now which is why everyone is so worried). |
A well thought out reply,
i would agree with others in this thread that innovation is driven by vid card/ CPU tech...and that is in turn driven by more demanding apps...not just games
PC gaming is not dying
its a matter of weeding out the button mashing fodder that of course don't require a sophisticated input system (ie KB/Mouse)
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