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LeoNatan
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PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 13:23    Post subject:
Anyone with crossfire have a problem with this?
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 13:43    Post subject:
No problems here with a 4870X2 card (Bit different from standard crossfire/sli technology though.) but it depends on what you mean with problems, there's some minor stuttering as new areas are loaded (Loading seems to happen in a small radius around the player, you can see it pretty well with vegetation by turning the camera/rotating your character.)

Performance wise the game is pretty good but as I mentioned I did tweak the INI file(s) a bit (There's several.) and also posted those alterations one or two pages back, it's pretty intensive though but I still maintain over 30 FPS while pushung the LOD scales to the maximum.

There are bugs with this though, I would like to scale things even further but that's not exactly possible without problems.

I'm a bit sick at the moment so I'll try to keep it short but still detailed.

This command - "Entity.ROI=4000.0" for example controls NPC/Creature view distance but increasing it above default causes certain sound sources to be pushed back as well, haven't experimented much with it but in G3 waterfalls and other sound source "activators" sounded further back than they really were.
(Depending on how much you increased this.)

These two commands.
DistanceHigh.fFarClippingPlane_High=10000.0
DistanceLow.fFarClippingPlaneLowPolyMesh_High=100000.0
(There's also a low and medium setting depending on which quality level you use.)

Controls LOD distance for landscape or terrain with the first one increasing "high detail" terrain and the second one a lower resolution and much less detailed landscape.

Can't seem to get them much better than this, increasing the second one further shows no major improvements (I've already pushed it back to the horizon with this value.) and increasing the first one a bit over 11000 causes visible clipping and seams in the landscape, infact you can notice smaller seams even at this value but it's worth it due to the the increased detail.

VegetationAdmin.ViewRange=14000.0
This setting controls grass render distance and can be increased quite a bit above defaults (Which are already a bit above the 4000.0 value that was the default in G3) but together with AA you'll notice a sharp performance decline as the game supports alpha AA or to put it simply it supports anti-aliasing of the vegetation and other 2d "planes" in the game on certain higher-end cards. (Not a problem for the X2 card though.)

TestMode=true
This turns on debug mode and allows access to the console, same as with G3 1.6 the console is a bit buggy and when using it try to avoid certain key combinations as those are bound to debug functions like CTRL+W toggling wireframe.
(You can, to put it directly, fuck the game up totally by incorrect usage of the debug console, pressing F8 or perhaps it was F10 kills and resurrects the player for example but fails all active quests making it impossible to finish the main story as a example.)

Feel free to ignore the comments in the GE3.ini file as well but they can be helpful to understand what certain settings do. Smile

Also the intro videos are handled by logo.ini so feel free to delete all .BIK file references from it but don't remove the file itself, intro and outro movies will still play as usual but the developer logos won't play anymore.

My own GE3.ini file now looks like this but it'll be pretty demanding for low and mid-end hardware and I did alter certain commands that hold no purpose anymore such as the "Threads." commands. (Multi-threading was disabled in the 1.5 community patch due to issues as it wasn't fully synchronized and this engine seems to be based on the changes in the 1.6 community patch.)

 Spoiler:
 


I only covered some of the bigger commands but feel free to experiment, do a backup first though incase you somehow damage the file by incorrectly altering settings such as memory management.
(I've only briefly experimented with them and it works a bit different now.)
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 14:45    Post subject:
This is what I mean but problems:

 Spoiler:
 


Everything is just flickering with these green blob textures...
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 15:34    Post subject:
Now that you mention it I did have a small issue with shadows causing flickering but it went away after a while but try reducing shadow quality or turning it off as a test.

Also make sure that the ATI CCC settings are set up properly, lowering "mip-map detail level" for example will (As seen in the example preview window) really blur the textures.

AA definitively shouldn't be forced but you can use a custom AA filter if you can handle the performance hit.
(Box is normal AA with Edge Detect being a advanced filter method and the two "tent" modes use small amounts of blur and are thus not really recommended.)

AF can be forced but if possible it should be handled by the game instead of being brute-forced though at most on more recent hardware you'll only notice a slightly bigger performance hit from filtering all textures compared to allowing the game to control AF.


It doesn't really matter for most titles though, ATI plays it rather safe and CCC will disable options that can cause problems from how I understand it (AA, AF and Vsync mainly.) but only if it's a know title ("Profile" to use that term, detected by EXE file name and Gothic3: Forsaken Gods do use a different EXE name from normal Gothic 3 and it further differs between the German and English version.)

Wouldn't recommend renaming the EXE back as certain optimizations ATI has done for that title might not properly mesh with the addon.
(This is all handled by the Catalyst AI setting by the way but if possible never turn it off.)
(As turning it off will disable AFR rendering and thus render Crossfire inactive and only using one core when using a X2 card, can solve problems but will cost a bit of performance depending on how well Crossfire is implemented, 8.12 should improve things a bit by the way and so should the 9.1 drivers)
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LeoNatan
Banned



Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 15:59    Post subject:
Everything is set to application controlled and mipmaps are to highest quality. The problem isn't the low res textures, look at buildings' doors or windows. Also notice ground.
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 17:44    Post subject:
One of the reasons I wondered about mip-map quality was that I found the textures to be extremely blurry, same with forced AA and AF as that can interfere with models and textures on occasion.

But as you say this looks more like a different issue as you have these strange patches with blurry and low-detail textures instead of having all textures being blurred up.

Hard to say what causes it, perhaps deleting the user INI file would work as it should reset the options.
(It's located in the "C:\Users\UserName\Documents\Gothic3ForsakenGods" folder with Vista and I think it's something like this for XP "C:\Documents and Setting\UserName\My Documents\Gothic3ForsakenGods".)

If you haven't edited any other INI files you shouldn't need to do much else but I wonder if it's actually caused by something like that or if it's some other problem, render related perhaps as different cards can produce different results even when using the latest drivers and having everything up-to-date.
(That's the hard thing with computers, tons of different hardware/software configurations gives tons of possible errors compared to a console so it's never easy to find a solution unless a fair amount of other people have similar problems in which case it's easier to troubleshoot as it gives something to go on.)
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heckknow




Posts: 541
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 18:16    Post subject:
holy mutha! i started playing G3 FG for like 20 minutes (patched to 1.06). my first impression is it's beautiful compared to what i remembered of the original G3. Trine really did improve the visual of the Genome engine. you really should start playing thinking that it's crap because you'll be surprised that it's not utter crap (i.e. set your standard of the game really low before you play).

i noticed some glitches like if you press 't' to switch to 1st person view your hair will block your view. i play at 2560x1600 resolution. the intro movies are clipped on the left and right side with black borders. also they look very grainy making the movie text hard to read. you can't pick up some plants for some reason. the map doesn't show up correctly. you have to switch to the previous view then switch back to get it to stay up.

i haven't done any quests (or fought any enemies yet). i'm just running around the water fall area to take in the view. the shader for the water is gorgeous. although some grass and plants aren't properly attached to the ground. there are also some parts of the cliff where your character get's clipped into the floor (bad object collision detection).

my system spec is:

vista sp1 x64
q6600 quad-core @ 2.4 ghz
8 gb ram
nvidia 8800 gt 512 mb

so far so good (no crash to desktop is good). i'm sure i'm going to be disappointed when i start doing the quest. then find out stuff broken left and right. but so far, not a bad game. i'm going to re-install the original g3 to compare (with the latest cp 1.6 patch of course).
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 18:49    Post subject:
I noticed the hair bug recently as well, seems you can play the entire game in first person now as well without it going back to third person but a bit of the display area is blocked by the PC's hair (Player character.)

Visually there are improvements like proper AA, soft water, better fog and lighting effects but most of the actual models and textures are re-used.
(Along with the voices and gameworld itself which leads to the next issue.)

That plant (Stoneroot?) is part of a quest in Gothic 3 just as several other items like beer barrels, firewood, a smiths hammer and a fire chalice and while the quests are gone the items remain for some reason but can't be interacted with, and that's just the first town of Silden where you start so other areas are bound to have similar "remnants".
(Also since they re-used the landmass there are still many objects floating a bit due to bad alignment not to mention that Nordmar and Varant is totally cut out and badly blocked off though the "goto Milten" and "goto Lee" console commands places you in Varant and Nordmar respectively but you won't get anywhere due to missing landmass.)

It needs more work via a few patches so hopefully Trine (The Indian studio developing the game.) will be allowed (By Jowood, the publisher.) to support the title for a while longer.
(Despite Jowood setting the original deadline and following it despite the game not being ready for release, hopefully SpellHold Studios whom are working with G4 will be allowed to take their time but a deadline is already set for holiday 2009 based on a picture at the end of the user manual, available in PDF form on the game disc.)


EDIT:
Statement from Jowood.
http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=57878

http://www.worldofgothic.de/index.php?go=showcomment&news_id=1259&_sid=
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 21:03    Post subject:
Well you don't see this everyday:

"Gothic 3 : Forsaken Gods is full of bugs, just as the main game was. Fans complain about the poor quality, and JoWooD felt that it's time to release a statement regarding the game.

First of all we want to thank the community for showing their support and we also want to thank those who have chosen to buy the game.

Unfortunately, it wasn't possible for us to release a game that could fully satisfy you, from different reasons.

The game was released this year because that was what we and the community desired.
JoWooD and Trine have worked under a lot of pressure, and to repair some of the mistakes we released the game with a patch, to try and make it better.

Michael Kairat, Executive Producer of JoWooD said : We are now getting the "bill" from the community for our mistakes.

JoWooD Productions would like to present their apologies to the fans for releasing an unsatisfying game.

Furthermore Michael Kairat explained that in the next days a new patch will be released which will improve the quality of the game. It will be available for download on JoWooD's Official Website. We also want to make a content patch which will include opinions, suggestions, wishes from the community.

After the feedback from the community, we will release a statement regarding the patch.
Together with Spellbound we will make early beta tests for Arcania : A Gothic Tale, to be sure that the past mistakes will not be repeated.

JoWooD admits their mistake, and will prevent it from happening again, says Michael Kairat on behalf of the entire team."
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Fri, 28th Nov 2008 21:09    Post subject:
I'm tired of trying to block shots but I never do it's frikin' useless, my opponents don't seem to have such problems.
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 11:56    Post subject:
Heh, in Gothic 3 you had to work a bit to get the better arms and armors but here they're just lying around.

Minor spoilers->

Found the best 1-handed sword in the game (Skullfed, compared with the "Give all" console command.) just lying around in a temple ruin just outside Trelis and it's only guarded by four weak Orc NPC's so one can just grab it.
(Need a bit of training to wield it ofcourse but aside from certain 2-handed weapons nothing is stronger.)

EDIT: Found another one in a chest called "Oronthius", guarded by a black troll though.
(Also found several other high-end weapons in chests scattered around the world such as the Reddock camp or the pass to Nordmar in Faring, can find all sorts of items by exploring a bit.)
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 14:40    Post subject:
How do you deliver the finishing blow with the sword when someone is laying beaten to a pulp on the ground?
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Perdurab00




Posts: 455
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:09    Post subject:
madmax17 wrote:
How do you deliver the finishing blow with the sword when someone is laying beaten to a pulp on the ground?


You mean in the game?
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djaoni




Posts: 8061
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:24    Post subject:
Perdurab00 wrote:
madmax17 wrote:
How do you deliver the finishing blow with the sword when someone is laying beaten to a pulp on the ground?


You mean in the game?


No he means in real life.. What the fuck do you think?

And I can't remember how to do it.
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Vikerness




Posts: 3616
Location: Brasov
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:30    Post subject:
walk on the body looking forward, hold left click a bit and release it, same as in dark messiah is what i remember
edit: ups


Last edited by Vikerness on Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:30    Post subject:
When close to a defeated NPC right click and hold just as if you were blocking, NPC should then be targeted and you just have to left click again to finish him off.
(Like if you were attempting a special attack but against a already downed NPC.)

You have to be quick though or the NPC will get back up again and obviously shouldn't do it when other NPC's are in the vicinity as that'll cause them to react.

EDIT: Vikerness was a bit faster with a answer.
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 15:49    Post subject:
The problem seems to be I don't see the name of the 'victim' like in previous Gothic when they lie on the ground, I'll try the right click then maybe it will lock on.

ps. did anybody get to escort the prisoner to Gabriel in Gotha, how do you do both, deliver him to his wife and Gabriel because these are to separate quests and I can only do one, then he drops out of my party and I can't do the other quest (and one of these is needed for the main quest).
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moosenoodles




Posts: 18411
PostPosted: Sat, 29th Nov 2008 16:35    Post subject:
Is this anygood ? worth playing at all ?
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun, 30th Nov 2008 12:05    Post subject:
Lol, finally arrived in Vengard after following the main quest for a bit, should have gone there earlier I think.

Found the best weapons and armors in the game just lying around in unlocked chests and weapon racks, could just grab everything without worrying about the consequences as no one reported it as stealing, earned quite a bit of gold as well as the traders there had a unlimited supply of it, had to sell multiple copies of some of the best gear in the game.
(Sell a bit of loot and then exit conversation and start trading again, works for most traders in this game.)

EDIT: Aside from the somewhat broken balance in the game (Godly items just lying around and can be grabbed at level 1 one or two hours into the game or high-level monsters with nearly no hitpoints such as a literal swarm of demons near a wall blocking of Nordmar.) the game is pretty decent but there are a few bugs (Quite a few actually.) and some of the quests are a bit odd or require a ton of little things to be done before you can progress.
(Nameless is a bit of a ass as well now and switches sides constantly or babbles about how he is the righteous ruler who will set things right and get rid of the weak.)

I'm having fun playing but the devs should have studied the previous Gothic titles a bit more to learn a bit about them.
(To cite the "Nameless one" during one quest - Cor Kalom the cup!?)

EDIT: Also I'm having a hard time finding actual trainers for new skills and ofcourse armor can't be bought as it requires reputation and you'll earn very little of that during the course of the game.
(Forget about Nordmar, Mercenary and Hashishin armor altogether, can't earn that type of reputation without cheating reputation itself or the "Give" console command.)


Last edited by JBeckman on Sun, 30th Nov 2008 12:15; edited 2 times in total
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D34Dite




Posts: 1724
Location: Norn Iron, UK
PostPosted: Sun, 30th Nov 2008 12:06    Post subject:
does this make gothic 3 playable with stable framerates or is it still a load of old cock

when there is no more room in hell, the D34D will walk the earth
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun, 30th Nov 2008 12:13    Post subject:
Framerate is stable and I've had no crash issues (The "Where is the guru?" error screen for example.) but as I've been saying, while it's a expansion and adds to the story of Gothic 3 by bridging it with the beginning of Gothic 4 it's not part of Gothic 3 nor does it require it to be installed and is fully stand-alone as a separate title.
(It does reuse a lot of stuff from G3 however.)

Gothic 3 has been pretty good ever since community patch 1.6 though and 1.7 should be released early next year from what I've read and it seems to be quite a improvement as well based on what I've read about it.
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun, 30th Nov 2008 12:21    Post subject:
The game is pretty much broken with no steal penalties and so is the economy of Myrtana as I own all the cash now with 350.000 and all the traders are broke Laughing you can't finish some quests because of bugs (if you're not careful this could translate into the main quest), dialogs are wtf sometimes the hero 'takes' the line of the person you are talking to, he speaks the line the other person should have said. Broken all the way still nice for Gothic fans.
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Mona Sax




Posts: 16
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 00:08    Post subject: Doubt
Please, what rls is better?
FLT or Procyon?
Thanks

Sorry my " broken " English. /\ P4 HT Prescott 3.2, 2G ddr Pc400, XFX 7600 GT 256/128, SevenTeam 420W/\
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 06:06    Post subject:
Doesn't really matter as they're basically the same, I think FLT (Fairlight) uses the download edition so they're Eng/Ger language while Procyon uses the retail disc edition thus Eng only.

Download either one and install the 1.04 and then the 1.06 patches. Smile
(Patches aren't protected so if you use the download edition it'll remove the protection.)
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tranx




Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 06:25    Post subject:
madmax17 wrote:
The game is pretty much broken with no steal penalties and so is the economy of Myrtana as I own all the cash now with 350.000 and all the traders are broke Laughing you can't finish some quests because of bugs (if you're not careful this could translate into the main quest), dialogs are wtf sometimes the hero 'takes' the line of the person you are talking to, he speaks the line the other person should have said. Broken all the way still nice for Gothic fans.


Good thing I just installed the game. Well, I guess the next patch will have to do or whatever patch does a major overhaul to the game. Back to Fable 2.
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VGAdeadcafe




Posts: 22230
Location: ★ ಠ_ಠ ★
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 07:08    Post subject:
I'm still waiting for the CP 1.7 for gothic 3 and more patches for this one.

But which game should I start playing first, to make more sense story-wise ?!
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 08:04    Post subject:
Gothic 3 Forsaken Gods follows the "neutral" (Adannos) ending from Gothic 3 but it's explained pretty well during the intro movie so it's not a requirement to have played trough G3 first in order to understand the story in Forgotten Gods.

Nordmar and Varant are inaccessible but the landmass of Myrtana is pretty much untouched so if you knew you way around it in G3 you'll already know much of the world in Forsaken Gods though some places will have changed a bit.
(Takes place about two or three years after the events in G3 but aside from some alterations to certain towns and smaller camps I found most areas as they were in G3 though I was a bit surprised at times as well since the developers have changed things around a bit regarding what you'll come across while exploring, Reddock was a nice surprise to mention one thing and so were the caves under Kap Dun.)

The story is very linear however and if you don't follow it closely or skip sections (as the game allows this due to how open it is.) and due to that, despite some quests having multiple solutions and outcomes, you're only supposed to solve them in a certain way or in a specific order so it's fully possible to break things and get stuck forcing you to start over.
(I skipped a few quests by accident due to this, pretty easy to do but I never became completely stuck so I guess I've been lucky so far.)

For example you need to speak to a certain NPC but you'll first need to convince the gatekeeper to let you pass, sneaking past said guard is possible but the NPC won't talk to you if you do, bribing the guard is also possible but not supposed to be the proper solution so that can also break things further on and despite the bribe costing quite a bit it's not impossible to get that amount of money due to the economy and abundance of good loot to sell.

You're also asked to deal with a mage and the solution there is to first to talk to some NPC's in the area and then after reporting about that dispose of the mage but if you ask the NPC's in the wrong order you'll know a bit more than intended and might choose to get rid of the mage earlier than intended thus breaking the quest.
(Did this myself, won't break the main quest as you can continue if you talk to the correct NPC afterwards but you'll break a quest that's supposed to be part of it.)
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madmax17




Posts: 18405
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 13:07    Post subject:
I now have 550.000 in gold coins Laughing Myrtana's economy is worse than Sudan, I also found a Daemons sword, damage is crap but strength requirement is 666, yes the guys that made this game are very funny Very Happy they where probably high when making it.
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Radamez




Posts: 892
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 16:27    Post subject:
:edit: Nevermind, already posted.


Last edited by Radamez on Mon, 1st Dec 2008 16:28; edited 1 time in total
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34701
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 1st Dec 2008 16:27    Post subject:
Demon Sword is the best 2H sword weapon in the game actually.
(Wrath of Innos is also pretty good but you can bless and sharpen the Demon sword to make it even better.)

Still nowhere near as good as certain axe type 2H weapons though or the new 1H swords in the expansion.
(That sword I mentioned previously does 300 damage, can find atleast three of them in the capitol city of Vengard.)

Beat the game a while ago, was pretty short aside from quite a few "filler" quests like escorting some NPC's all over the place and finding some smaller items before another NPC would help you, endboss was supposed to be the strongest creature ever according to in-game conversations (Above the sleeper and undead dragon.) but was quite easy to dispose of, can keep playing after beating the game by the way. Smile
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