|
|
| Page 2 of 6 |
|
|
 Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:30 Post subject: |
|
 |
I do agree that PC gamers expectaions are high but to say that piracy has nothing to do with poor sales is ridiculous. its a fact that more people pirate on the pc platform than any other.
Even my Boss at work Downloads games for HER pc. mainly the Sims add-ons.
she has an Xbox360 but is too afraid to mess about with it.
^^ see the subliminal message there.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:35 Post subject: |
|
|
High expectations + sense of entitlement + ease = piracy problems.
People think that they should decide what is worth paying for without paying for it, but those expectations make nearly everything fall short.. so in the end you wind up with every single game sucking ass and not worth paying for.
And I'd wager the number of people who actually go out and buy great games after they played the pirate version is very very small.
Just because a game exists does not mean you are obligated to play it. It's okay not to play every game ever made.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:40 Post subject: |
|
|
games should take guitar hero approach - if you want to truly enjoy you must have some "external" controller with what you can do things you normally can't. you just plug that controller into usb and take of; and it could be a small one
but yeah it wouldn't work out as ultimately you'd have big garbage on your desk
yes
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:44 Post subject: |
|
|
They tried 'dongles' but it never really took off.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 18:48 Post subject: |
|
|
VBS1 used and VBS2 still uses dongle (army variants of OFP and ArmA). detonation cracked the VBS1 Marxs (or sth) dongle protectin, VBS2 is still unbypassed
yes
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 19:12 Post subject: |
|
|
Dumbest peace of shit I ever read, he quoted all the wrong people that are completely clueless about pc gamers, kinda like him, and didn't even bother to mention stardock, bill of rights and the fact that they sell a bunch of games without drm, and according to him that is impossible, fuck it's like reading a Ricotello article. I don't even give a fuck I'm not buying drm games he can preach to the quire all he wants, if it really turns into a mmo fag-fast I'll only play GOG games (buy them of course) that can keep me occupied for 20 years the drm free sticker is looking better by the minute. He also didn't mention that the uncrackable SC3 didn't sell a lot so drm is in fact pointless, of course then there is the data manipulation, the fact that ubisoft was sued and lost, thanks for the shitty article it's giving me diarrhea.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 19:17 Post subject: |
|
|
Lets say they are right and piracy is hurting the gaming industry. (Yet somehow they bank more than movies these days)
If most of us came to acknowledge this and stopped pirating things would get worse for at least us PC gamers. While in this scenario piracy came to a almost complete stop because of our adoption to the morality that piracy is wrong. But the gaming industry wouldn't accept this as a reason. They would simply claim that copy protection methods beat us and would try to claim some sort of victory while using it as a excuse to continue to use programs like SecuROM and they would only become even more restricting. They would also find new ways to continue taking our money even after a purchase.
I honestly think that at this point if either side decided to bail out it would ruin and possibly end gaming on the PC. If they give up then they will simply stop making games rather than just dropping the protections. If pirates give up its going to bring us into a PC gaming dark age because of how the gaming industry behaves today which in turn could also end PC gaming.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 19:29 Post subject: |
|
|
Its not only piracy that hurts pc games, but the big budgets. Games are to expensive to make and managers decide what hit the markets, and they go save ( creating another 3th person action sequel). In the early 90's one genius good make a game, now it cost millions and 100>staff for 2 years. That is why big games are multi platform, games have to appeal to a broad public and are predictable and easy to play.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 19:32 Post subject: |
|
|
People who buy games determine what games get made.
In this way piracy is actually self-defeating. If RPGs get pirated like mad and sell poorly then people will not be eager to invest millions into making more. But if FPSes sell millions then people will want to make more to get in on that.
Companies respond to the market, and pirates are not part of the market. What sells influences what gets made. Simple as that. So instead of stealing good games in the genre you like, go buy them. Buy them twice. Tell the market that you are there and want more of something and they will respond.
Supply will rise to meet a demand, but downloading games does not mark itself as a demand.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 19:56 Post subject: |
|
|
| friketje wrote: | | Its not only piracy that hurts pc games, but the big budgets. Games are to expensive to make and managers decide what hit the markets, and they go save ( creating another 3th person action sequel). In the early 90's one genius good make a game, now it cost millions and 100>staff for 2 years. That is why big games are multi platform, games have to appeal to a broad public and are predictable and easy to play. |
While I'll agree with you to a point I would like to point out in the past before gaming became such a common hobby that most developers were basically broke and had a very small team of people and it would often take quite a bit of time to get the game out and hope it sells well. They got no where near the amount of sales today. Even after making a good game the developers would still fail to survive.
So it doesn't exactly add up on how the risk factor is somehow higher today. Sure it costs more and yes they have to pay more people but the profits today are insanely larger than in the past as gaming has become something seen as nerdy to one of the biggest hobbies today. We could also look at the fact that many games today don't have engines built from the ground up and instead simply use another's such as Source or Unreal sure they have to pay to use it but it no doubt costs less than building their own and takes much less time.
I truly can't understand how companies like EA are somehow not making enough and actually laying people off. Perhaps the real problem is within the company itself. Big shots of companies love to give themselves large bonuses of millions of dollars. Perhaps its not piracy or sales or even development costs that are really to blame.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 21:23 Post subject: |
|
|
piracy or not, games have been going down quality wise for several years now, and im saying that as someone who has been playing games since 1986.
i used to buy game magazines every month which had several lets say very good games with a +80% rating, these days those magazines got so thin, cause there are maybe 5 games to review, which are at most 2 pages, but there is a huge preview section where some games get up to 5 pages of preview testing at the developer full of praise cause... thats the only reason they are allowed in.
I didnt mean to go offtopic here, but i mentioned it cause the gaming industry went from programmers making games and making money out of it(perfectly fine with me, we all need to pay the rent right?) to companies investing a ton of money and expecting double digit profit. Games are rarely made anymore cause some guys got together and brainstormed a good game idea, but its usually figuring out how to max out profit.
This greed has been going in my opinion since the "bubble" in the late 90s, but only now it really shows, even companies like blizzard are in it, selling transfers/char costumisations for 15-25dollar a piece, and trust me its a huge cash cow, same for EA and the upcomming starwars mmo, where you can buy gear and more for real life dollars, basicly making money by selling you air, virtual 101010s on a harddrive across the ocean.
Its what made the game/movie/music industry so big, invest a set amount of money upfront, and depending on how it sells you can make HUGE profits, and it costs you 2 bucks to procude the CD and case which sells for 60.
Its why they try to squeeze every last game that sells out of it, cause of the almost 100% profit, if they get to sell 100 games more cause of DRM, its 6000bucks, even though the game sells a million copies already.
The thing about DRM is 1. it does not work cause it always gets cracked aka its money wasted on the publishers side 2.it hurts legal buyers more then the ones pirating cause of that. This is what the fuss is about, not that kids suddenly cant copy it anymore.
To come back to quality of games, if you make good games they will always sell good, and you will always have profits, but its pure greed if you try to squeeze out a few more copies at the cost of your costumers gaming experience, and if it doesnt sell well it it means your game isnt good enough, it also means when your company goes broke and you blame it on piracy it doesnt hold up that it was barely pirated either.
Its nothing new what im writing, but when i see crytek manager bitch about piracy i am about to call his office to tell him to add how many times the game has sold, and how much profit was made out of it. No its not ok to copy, yes its illegal, but its not the end of the world and not something a person should go to court for.companies got to deal with it as long as they sell air, it will be treated as air.
I used to actually get something in my hands when buying games, with consoles i got an actual cartridge and case with an actual real full manual, that i can put on my bookshelf and tell myself look thats where my 40 euro( price of console games those days) went, or i would have a huge box compared to today for PC games with huge manual , extras, i mean when i bought Falcon 3 in the early 90s it had a manual so huge i could fly an actual F16 if i wanted to, huge real military maps, name it....for you wont believe it 30-35 euro back then, as most PC games went for
Now you get the CD with a dvd case, thats it, for 70 euros, not to mention you wil be able to enjoy it in a few months when fully patched, this is getting the sad reality even for consoles now.
The huge cost for producing games leaves out the innovative crowd of game designers, just like the movie industry only the 100% safe profit games are made, remember if it was up to the movie studios starwars wouldnt have seen the light cause it didnt seem promesing enough....
But i wonder what is making those games cost so much to produce these days? Ill gladly discuss it with anyone but games arent that more complex today then 10 years ago, graphicly yes there were huge leaps, but programming wise there were huge complex games even in the 2D 16bit days, so yes more and better artists have been hired but do you really have to? graphics do matter im not trying to argue that, but there are bad graphics and simple graphics, a well modeled car of 6k polies looks alot better then a badly modeled car with 12k poly count.
The only way forward these days is graphicly, at whatever the cost, wrap a game around it, give it some none graphicly feature like martyrdom /sarcasm to justify the new game.
I dont get how this is accepted, i see more people putting 8bit games in their top10 ever then games made in DX10. This isnt about nostaligia, i played super mario world for 4 hours this week, nostalgia alone wouldnt have cut it, maybe its a great game?
Graphics whores are a small but very annoying vocal minority, too loud it seems when the industry dances when they clap, i cringe when i see kids complain about bad graphics in the latest NDS castlevania review, if anything it shows us what potential 2D graphics have, and how we gave up on 2D way too early, look whats possible on an NDS which has a lower resolution than the SNES graphicly wise, and still developers try to put 3D games into the NDS which look more horrible than a PS1, simply unbelievable.
The game industry is like GM/chrysler/ford in the car industry, making big bloated buggy games that cost alot, unlike in real life where we can buy a german car instead we have little options when it comes to games, and the game industry knows it, they think they can pull this all off and not risk a blowback, it wont happen tomorrow, and it might not happen in a year or ever cause i could be wrong, but the gaming industry is becomming a huge bubble that is going to implode someday, where alot less games will be sold, and i hope that day we will see 150dollar 2D only gaming consoles again, using cartridges that last forever, 640*480 resolution that works on any TV/monitor, and able to produce the best graphics possible in 2D, so the console wont be outdated even in 10 years. Which will allow a group of 12 people with a great idea to form a studio and make their own game, which brought us the best games ever made in the 80s early 90s.
And those games will be bought, the developers will make profit, and we as gamers will have alot of great games to play. piracy will always stay, but only cause people can, not to protest.
EDIT : damn i type too much 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 22:29 Post subject: |
|
|
| Stefan F wrote: | | piracy or not, games have been going down quality wise for several years now, and im saying that as someone who has been playing games since 1986. |
I disagree. I've played some amazing games this year. Fallout 3, GTA4, new Prince of Persia just in the last month. A great RPG, an amazing 3rd person open world action game and a top notch platformer. Not to mention things like NWN2 expansion. And that's just in a month!
Then you have things like L4D, CoD:WaW, Vampyre Story (which is a great point and click adventure), etc.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 22:37 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:09; edited 2 times in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 22:39 Post subject: |
|
|
How did you manage to play an adventure game when this article clearly stated they are dead (he even provided a graph)  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 22:41 Post subject: |
|
|
| garus wrote: | Every game you mentioned is sequel or remake of old idea with better graphics(except A Vampyre Story which I didn't play). How is this amazing?
PS. Yeah, I love GTA 4. Just saying that these games are not built from an original idea. |
Games don't have to be 'original ideas' to be fun, do they?
There hasn't been an original idea since the dawn of time. Everything is just a variation of something else.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 22:43 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:09; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 23:22 Post subject: |
|
|
Dumb article, but this:
| Quote: | Back in the 1980s when my friends and I swapped copies of Amiga games, we didn't blame the copy protection for forcing us to do it, we didn't blame copyright laws, or assume it was our right to copy any game we want in the name of 'freedom', we didn't even make a point of openly advertising that we did it. We copied games for one simple reason: because we could.
Fast forward to the 21st century, and piracy has apparently somehow become a political struggle, a fight against greedy corporations and evil copy protection, and in some cases, I've even seen some people refer to the rise of piracy as a "revolution". What an absolute farce. Truth be told I have the greatest respect for the people who simply come out and just say that they pirate because they can, no more, no less. At least then I know I'm dealing with someone who's being honest and has got their head screwed on straight. |
So true.
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 12th Dec 2008 23:26 Post subject: |
|
|
| rhagz wrote: | | Stefan F wrote: | | piracy or not, games have been going down quality wise for several years now, and im saying that as someone who has been playing games since 1986. |
I disagree. I've played some amazing games this year. Fallout 3, GTA4, new Prince of Persia just in the last month. A great RPG, an amazing 3rd person open world action game and a top notch platformer. Not to mention things like NWN2 expansion. And that's just in a month!
Then you have things like L4D, CoD:WaW, Vampyre Story (which is a great point and click adventure), etc. |
First of all the only reason why so many games came out recently good or not is because releasing a game on Christmas is going to achieve higher sales averagely. This time of the year doesn't reflect the state of gaming.
Second I would have to disagree with you on some of the games you listed. COD5 for example just gives me the been there and done that feeling once again. No matter how pretty they make WW2 games its still the same thing over and over again. The only thing they have left is a alternate history game which lets you play as a Nazi and change history. But that will never happen because no one has the balls to make the game.
Fallout 3 was just plain out bad to me and I'm not just saying this because I'm a original Fallout fan. The game was incredibly easy and the story was awfully uninteresting to me. I also despised how the game let me blow up a city with children in it but when I got to the slavers and bought those kids my only option was to let them run free. I didn't expect to be able to hurt them but surely having them as slaves in Tenpenny tower or perhaps find someone willing to pay more money for them would have made reasonable options. But instead my evil character who is willing to nuke children is forced to let slaved children run free makes no fucking sense.
L4D is fun and I like it playing with some friends of mine but its already getting stale. I currently only play versus now. I honestly don't see L4D worth what they are charging.
GTA IV is fun but I honestly wish there was a better storyline. I just can't connect to the main character like I did CJ. I'm tired of him always crying about the god damn war. I have PTSD and I don't even whine like that. If some tragedy happens at the end of the game like the cousin dying or even the main charactor himself (not gonna happen I know) I simply just won't care.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 01:56 Post subject: |
|
|
im not saying there isnt a single good game anymore, but they went down in quality and quantity at the same time still, look at how many good games came out in 1995 alone, one month in the 90s feels like the whole year of 2008...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 02:10 Post subject: |
|
|
I've played a ton of good to great games this year. Not sure where you've been or what your tastes are.
Mass Effect, Ass. Creed, Dead Space, The Witcher: EE, STALKER: CS, Lego Indy/Batman, NWN2 expansions, World of Goo, FO3, TR:U, PoP, L4D, GTA4, CoD, FC2, Bully: SE, King's Bounty.
And that's just what I still have on my drive. And that's not even counting things on consoles like Fable 2, GoW2, MGS4, etc.
So yeah, gaming in general is doing just fine. Been a fucking awesome year actually.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dr-nix
Posts: 996
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 11:51 Post subject: |
|
|
Piracy has a less effect than those greedy fucks make it out to sound like.
I pirate games, but only games i would never ever buy. If it's a game like HL2 that i enjoy i buy it. Earlier in my life i pirated games because i couldn't afford to buy them! I'm sure this is a common thing, if i had the money when i was younger i would've bought alot more games but the only time i got a new game was around x-mas or sometimes when i had my birthday.
Seriously companies have been so wrong about this bs for a long time now, they don't factor in that people aren't as well off as the companies pretend we are. I'm tired of this BS!
AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black | ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | 32 GB Trident Z 3600Mhz | Gigabyte Aorus PCIe4 1TB SSD | Corsair MP510 1TB SSD |ASUS RTX 3080 Ti TUF | Fractal Design Define 7 | Seasonic 850W Platinum
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:00 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:03 Post subject: |
|
|
I always thought that there should be some sort of tax put on burning products worldwide, the most obvious would be blank discs. Tax CD/DVD burners a couple of bucks, blank disks pennies or a penny a piece. Even Nero and others should be taxed. Pool that money and distribute it to the offended industries accordingly. So maybe they can shut the %$#@ up.
Lets face it they're not selling tons of these products, like spools of a hundred blank DVD's flying off the shelves at Costco, cause you just want to make a copy of your tax returns and maybe a disc of this years vacation photos.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:05 Post subject: |
|
|
Games cost MONAY! to make fellas. The gaming industry is incredibly risky. It has basically NO rental market unlike Hollywood, where even a shitacular piece can make back enough money on rental. It has NO movie theaters to which HUNDREDS of millions of people go. It's RISKY! A game has 3-4 months to make it's money back on the shelves AND enough for the next game or that company is GONE. Games live and die on the shelves. So if the games are shit, don't buy them. Also DON'T pirate them!
You're telling me that the games are so shit you won't pay for them and by extension you won't support the next game that company would potentially make. Then you pirate it anyway because that same game is good enough to play for hours and hours for free? Get fucked.
Sooner or later the only people left will BE blizzard, valve, id, ccp. People who already can afford to take a loss. The next generation of game companies is dieing on your hypocrisy.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:10 Post subject: |
|
|
| Submiqent wrote: | Games cost MONAY! to make fellas. The gaming industry is incredibly risky.
|
Since your reading skills are laughable, or you didn't even bother to read the prior posts, here's a snippet;
| Quote: |
Your game cost $22m to make? Ok, it's a multiplatform game too.. so that means it's on the major consoles and, most likely, the PC too. Factor in the sales of Call of Duty 4 shall we? 3.7m on the 360, 390k on the PC, 10 on the PS3 (teehee, just kidding. I think the total was around 2.5m) Ok? That's recorded sales. Now let's do math.
Let's just round DOWN the price for arguments' sake and say that ALL versions only cost $30 per game, regardless of platform.
At the start of this year it had already sold 7 million copies. Oh dear. Can you see where this is going? Yes, Math 101. 7 million times 30. Wow. That's $210m. That was at the start of this YEAR, a full 12 months ago. The game made, from retail sales - as sales figures NEVER encompass Digital Distribution, two hundred and ten million dollars. If the game cost FIFTY million to make, it still made a cool profit of? Anybody? Yes, ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS-- yet they're whining about lost profit? And that, guys and girls, is taking into account that I rounded down the price to $30 for the entire retail lifespan of the game. We ALL know that's bullshit and unrealistic.. the game was, for many months, $50 on both consoles and $40ish on the PC.
..... and who said publishers weren't greedy?
|
Yeah. Incredibly risky and it costs MONAY to make. Get fucked.
| Quote: |
You're telling me that the games are so shit you won't pay for them and by extension you won't support the next game that company would potentially make. Then you pirate it anyway because that same game is good enough to play for hours and hours for free? Get fucked.
|
Yes, that's what we're telling you. We're telling you that no, most games aren't worth FIFTY DOLLARS .. but they are worth PLAYING. If there was no piracy, we wouldn't buy it either.
Get fucked.
| Quote: |
The next generation of game companies is dieing on your hypocrisy. |
And yet here you are, on a site dedicated to piracy, and you talk about hypocrisy!?
Get fucked.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:48 Post subject: |
|
|
sabin1981 u need a life...
sorry just had to be said :/
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 14:48 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 16:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| sway187 wrote: | sabin1981 u need a life...
sorry just had to be said :/ |
Great response. Just leave the thread and come back when you have something smart to say.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 2 of 6 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
 |
|
), but there are more quality games then 10 years ago. People only remember the good from the past There are a lot of small titles that are quite fun and good. I dont mind that the big budget games are console ports nowdays.
Don't think todays programmers could sit and type on the gates directly, because they wouldn't know how... not to mention, folks with new ideas might be able to get something released, instead of being gobbled up by EA and the ilks...
