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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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 Posted: Thu, 9th Apr 2009 22:46 Post subject: Usenet and the Swedish Ipred law? |
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I got this question from my brother in Sweden.
He would like to start using Usenet to get his stuff. The question is, what do you (Swe) guys think about it. Will "Ipred" pick it up or not?
I know there is a lot of hype in Sweden at the mo as to regards to Ipred, but what is real and what is simply hype at the mo.
Cheers guys!
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Apr 2009 23:01 Post subject: |
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Well. I'd say it's more or less like it was before. They will go after the big fish not the casual sharer.
If you're scared however go get a good VNC-provider and it should be all good really.
As far as the IPRED-law goes the only thing I've changed is that I no longer download from public torrentsites but limit myself to invite-torrents and ftp-rings.
So in conclusion, yeah USENET is prolly a good bet to stay of the radar, they will most likely be looking to get some TPB-scapegoats primarily.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Apr 2009 23:30 Post subject: |
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He should get a provider with SSL to minimize the chances to 0.01%. 
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Apr 2009 23:50 Post subject: |
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I have a SSL connection to my Usenet provider. Am I on the safe side?
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 00:20 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 16:04; edited 1 time in total
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_SiN_
Megatron
Posts: 12108
Location: Cybertron
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 00:51 Post subject: |
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But how can they "catch" me on Usenet? The only ones who ever sees my IP-adress is my provider? And since they need my IP to be able to go court asking for the user details from my ISP, then how is it possible? It's not like they can go to the usenet provider and say "hey, we want all your stored IP-adresses!"
Watercooled 5950X | AORUS Master X570 | Asus RTX 3090 TUF Gaming OC | 64Gb RAM | 1Tb 970 Evo Plus + 2Tb 660p | etc etc
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 01:01 Post subject: |
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| _SiN_ wrote: | | But how can they "catch" me on Usenet? The only ones who ever sees my IP-adress is my provider? And since they need my IP to be able to go court asking for the user details from my ISP, then how is it possible? It's not like they can go to the usenet provider and say "hey, we want all your stored IP-adresses!" |
The ISP can catch and process the article requests, which are done in NNTP. SSL encodes the data transmitted (both ways), so the ISP only sees activity on a certain port, and while it might guess what you are doing by the port number and/or the IP address you communicate with, they wouldn't be able to see the content of the communication, unless they crack the SSL encryption, which is still illegal in most countries.  |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 01:33 Post subject: |
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"American court" 
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helvete
Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 02:01 Post subject: |
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helvete
Posts: 2727
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 02:34 Post subject: |
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and I think they're looking for uploaders.. since they still can't prove you're not downloading a legal copy of what you already own.. so it should be ok. amirite?
REPOST
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 03:41 Post subject: |
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Ermmmm can they see what I request??? Even if it's ssl connection?
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 03:46 Post subject: |
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Nope, they shouldn't with SSL.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 03:57 Post subject: |
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lol, most swedes dont give a shit. Unless you upload/post there should not be a problem. Ipred... lol wonder when we got something similar in Norway.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24643
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 05:32 Post subject: Re: Usenet and the Swedish Ipred law? |
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| CaptainCox wrote: | I got this question from my brother in Sweden.
He would like to start using Usenet to get his stuff. The question is, what do you (Swe) guys think about it. Will "Ipred" pick it up or not?
I know there is a lot of hype in Sweden at the mo as to regards to Ipred, but what is real and what is simply hype at the mo.
Cheers guys! |
IPRED is pretty much aimed at stemming P2P, ie. torrents, kazaa and other P2P techniques. With usenet you're basically safe since no professional provider log IP's, save logs of who uploaded/downloaded what, and most offer SSL encrypted connections as well.
My recommendation: Astraweb. SSL is free, they've got amazing prices ($15/month for unlimited plan, 20 bots, maxes out my 100mbit connection constantly, growing to 365 days retention etc.)
What is real is that IPRED now allows private companies (publishers etc.) to demand a name and address to whoever used a certain IP at a certain time, and this will be permissible as evidence (obviously they need to have proof of upload/download as well, but they already have that when they demand the name/address) in a court.
A short description of usenet:
Your provider (Astraweb, giganews, usenethost etc.) have a huge server park with massive amounts of storage. This is where all the data is stored (we're talking ridiculous amounts, probably petabyte level). They also have fast pipes between each other to sync the contents so each provider have the same content.
The content is saved for x amount of days (each provider have a limit to how long they store the data to be able to fit new data all the time. it's a rotating content pool).
Then you get an account with them and get access to their storage farms, with or without SSL (encryption). See it as a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge private FTP. It is the norm for the professional usenet providers to never store/log any IP's or connect downloads/uploads to any user. They depend on the safety of their clients (us).
Thus the only way RIAA/MPAA/other muppets will ever nail you is if they buy the entire provider (which is ridiculous.. it's like open source supporters would buy Microsoft to get rid of it).
The only thing left is if your ISP is sniffing your traffic. Most ISP's make money off warez (with hand on your heart, who needs more than 2mbit to browse the net and read their email?) and only sniff traffic if they're using traffic shaping to keep throughput to a sustainable level. However, there may be some dirty ISP's that work together with the bloodhounds of the entertainment industry. This is where SSL comes in. It encrypts the traffic, making it very difficult for the ISP to know what you're actually uploading/downloading. Unless you're a very huge fish they won't spend money and effort in decrypting and interpreting every single SSL-packet you send/receive.
If you're still paranoid you can always use an encrypted VPN service (ipredator). That will foil most packet analyzers on the market. But it's totally pointless with usenet since you're pretty much safe to begin with.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 07:12 Post subject: Re: Usenet and the Swedish Ipred law? |
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| Frant wrote: | | CaptainCox wrote: | I got this question from my brother in Sweden.
He would like to start using Usenet to get his stuff. The question is, what do you (Swe) guys think about it. Will "Ipred" pick it up or not?
I know there is a lot of hype in Sweden at the mo as to regards to Ipred, but what is real and what is simply hype at the mo.
Cheers guys! |
IPRED is pretty much aimed at stemming P2P, ie. torrents, kazaa and other P2P techniques. With usenet you're basically safe since no professional provider log IP's, save logs of who uploaded/downloaded what, and most offer SSL encrypted connections as well.
My recommendation: Astraweb. SSL is free, they've got amazing prices ($15/month for unlimited plan, 20 bots, maxes out my 100mbit connection constantly, growing to 365 days retention etc.)
What is real is that IPRED now allows private companies (publishers etc.) to demand a name and address to whoever used a certain IP at a certain time, and this will be permissible as evidence (obviously they need to have proof of upload/download as well, but they already have that when they demand the name/address) in a court.
A short description of usenet:
Your provider (Astraweb, giganews, usenethost etc.) have a huge server park with massive amounts of storage. This is where all the data is stored (we're talking ridiculous amounts, probably petabyte level). They also have fast pipes between each other to sync the contents so each provider have the same content.
The content is saved for x amount of days (each provider have a limit to how long they store the data to be able to fit new data all the time. it's a rotating content pool).
Then you get an account with them and get access to their storage farms, with or without SSL (encryption). See it as a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge private FTP. It is the norm for the professional usenet providers to never store/log any IP's or connect downloads/uploads to any user. They depend on the safety of their clients (us).
Thus the only way RIAA/MPAA/other muppets will ever nail you is if they buy the entire provider (which is ridiculous.. it's like open source supporters would buy Microsoft to get rid of it).
The only thing left is if your ISP is sniffing your traffic. Most ISP's make money off warez (with hand on your heart, who needs more than 2mbit to browse the net and read their email?) and only sniff traffic if they're using traffic shaping to keep throughput to a sustainable level. However, there may be some dirty ISP's that work together with the bloodhounds of the entertainment industry. This is where SSL comes in. It encrypts the traffic, making it very difficult for the ISP to know what you're actually uploading/downloading. Unless you're a very huge fish they won't spend money and effort in decrypting and interpreting every single SSL-packet you send/receive.
If you're still paranoid you can always use an encrypted VPN service (ipredator). That will foil most packet analyzers on the market. But it's totally pointless with usenet since you're pretty much safe to begin with. |
Wise advice use your big guns for last and monitor the situation 
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 08:07 Post subject: |
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YOUR GOING TO JAIL COXY!!! MUHAHAHAAHA! lol j/k bud
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CaptainCox
VIP Member
Posts: 6823
Location: A Swede in Germany (FaM)
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Apr 2009 15:01 Post subject: |
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Haha. Naaaa, I think I am ok here in Germany for the time being.
But for the rest, I will link this thread to my bro. I guess he will find it informative enough.
Cheers guys. I knew I would get some good info here...one always do!.
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