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 Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 10:28 Post subject: |
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It's just a super big world, with endless quest count and a huge variety of places, weapons, spells etc...
There is no other RPG that reached that level yet.
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 10:58 Post subject: |
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If it runs like 3dmark05, we're all in trouble...
/5fps, here I come...
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 11:09 Post subject: |
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It's Oblivion.... IT'S MEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 14:20 Post subject: |
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I hate to spoil the mood, but I didn't really like Morrowind that much, I found it a bit bland, the world uneventful and somewhat... bad at immersing me into the story. Also for an RPG that saught to be open-ended it felt as if would you ignore the main quest, there really weren't much to do, at least that kept you motivated to move on. I felt very little "gameplay-fun" in this game, and that it was a bit monotonous, also I much prefer the monsters and atmosphere of ie. Middle Earth, or Forgotten Realms.
I suppose it's just not my cup of tea :/
ps. I also hate those "walk for 2 hours in this direction, get a quest where you need to walk the 2 hours back where you need to walk for an hour looking for something in an area with the vaguest of descriptions, and everything looks the same"
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 15:21 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | I hate to spoil the mood, but I didn't really like Morrowind that much, I found it a bit bland, the world uneventful and somewhat... bad at immersing me into the story. Also for an RPG that saught to be open-ended it felt as if would you ignore the main quest, there really weren't much to do, at least that kept you motivated to move on. I felt very little "gameplay-fun" in this game, and that it was a bit monotonous, also I much prefer the monsters and atmosphere of ie. Middle Earth, or Forgotten Realms.
I suppose it's just not my cup of tea :/
ps. I also hate those "walk for 2 hours in this direction, get a quest where you need to walk the 2 hours back where you need to walk for an hour looking for something in an area with the vaguest of descriptions, and everything looks the same" |
Morrowind is really all about the mods, the community is incredible (they've even hired people from the community to work with Oblivion).
MW Unmodded is more like a small demo that shows a little of what can be done with its engine, and not a complete game at all. The graphics gets 10x better with all the new texture mods and model/town-mods. Gameplay wise it's also a much, much better because it becomes so much more complex and engaging.. I'd never play MW without at least 50-60 mods installed (plus the addons of course)..
There are hundred of hi-quality mods for MW, many of them has taken years to create. There's almost nothing you can't roleplay in MW, almost everything has been done mod-wise.
And about the 2 hour walks; just like in most other RPG's teleporting becomes available later on.
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nerrd
Posts: 3607
Location: Poland / USA
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 17:37 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | Morrowind is really all about the mods, the community is incredible (they've even hired people from the community to work with Oblivion).
MW Unmodded is more like a small demo that shows a little of what can be done with its engine, and not a complete game at all. The graphics gets 10x better with all the new texture mods and model/town-mods. Gameplay wise it's also a much, much better because it becomes so much more complex and engaging.. I'd never play MW without at least 50-60 mods installed (plus the addons of course)..
There are hundred of hi-quality mods for MW, many of them has taken years to create. There's almost nothing you can't roleplay in MW, almost everything has been done mod-wise.
And about the 2 hour walks; just like in most other RPG's teleporting becomes available later on. |
60 mods installed? Seems like quite a lot. Can you list what you would consider essential mods?
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 20:19 Post subject: |
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| nerrd wrote: |
60 mods installed? Seems like quite a lot. Can you list what you would consider essential mods? |
60 isnt that much considering how many good and usefull mods there really are out there. I only install what i find interesting/usefull.
The official forum is the best place to look / ask for specific mods:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showforum=12
There are many (at least at the old forum) posts about essential must-have mods... Just search around the forum..
Here's a great list of good mods, not complete by any means but a good start..
http://www.mwmythicmods.com/index.htm
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 21:00 Post subject: |
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I saw this a while ago and I think it looks fantastic. I nearly lost my job to Morrowind and it looks like I'm going to have to book some time off for this one too. I really like the way you could do anything you wanted and that your skill increased depending on what you actually did in the world. No other RPG I've ever played has been this free and open. I had a max level character with loads of top end weaponry before I'd even got half way through the main plot, simply due to the fact that I spent days anmd days wandering aorund doing stuff completely unrelated to the story.
It seems they're really going to town with this one and not just with the graphics either. They're putting a lot of thought into the AI, combat, leveling system and everything.
Check out the full preview here:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion/558955p1.html
This bit really made me laugh:
"In fact, one of the interesting problems that the team has had to face came about precisely because the AI is so good. According to Howard, the AI has caused guards to decide to eat and go hunting deer, only to get themselves arrested for attacking something. When they fight back against the arresting guard, the other guards see a fight and try to join in. In not too much time, every guard in the town was involved in the scuffle, which left the rest of the town open to thievery by other NPCs, resulting in empty stores."
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 21:41 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | Why look at screenshots when you can check out realtime demos of the technology they use 
http://www.idvinc.com/html/downloads_exe.htm
"IDV congratulates Bethesda Softworks, developers of the much anticipated Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, for their brilliant use of SpeedTreeRT in setting an incredible new standard in game world graphics." |
Thanks for that. I downloaded the demos and they really do look fantastic. It's like 3DMark but you can walk about!
I got an average of 20-25fps at full detail (1280*960) on my 9700 Pro. The game's not due out until the end of this year and I'll have a new graphics card by then. Hello to 40-60fps with those graphics! Cool.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 22:08 Post subject: |
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90% of what you hear before final release is just stuff that is over-emphasized and hype. I don't know how many god-damned games that have said: "Amazing AI" prior to release and when the game is out, it's got really crappy AI that can do one thing right.
In the end, all that matters is how the game TRULY is, not what some guy with a paycheck from the developers say.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 22:21 Post subject: |
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Very true. We shall have to wait and see...
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 22:43 Post subject: |
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True, there will be lots of other things to take into account when it's integrated into a full game which is why I said 40-60fps. Maybe it is a bit hopeful but I have a tendancy (as I'm sure most here do) to fork out for the top end cards when they first come out as they seem much better at handling top end games than the cheaper, watered down versions that come out later on.
I bought my 9700Pro nearly 2 years ago for £300 and to this day I have only found one game to put it on it's back and that's Doom3 which seems to utilise graphics resources really badly. So, unless they fuck up the coding I should be OK once I get a new card. Fingers crossed
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sat, 8th Jan 2005 23:13 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | fisk wrote: | 90% of what you hear before final release is just stuff that is over-emphasized and hype. I don't know how many god-damned games that have said: "Amazing AI" prior to release and when the game is out, it's got really crappy AI that can do one thing right.
In the end, all that matters is how the game TRULY is, not what some guy with a paycheck from the developers say. |
I remember Bethesda bragging about the AI in Morrowind before it was released. They told different stories about funny happenings with the guards etc. I wasnt too impressed with the AI in MW  But its the same with every game.. I also remember Valve bragging about how smart your companions would be in HL1 and that they would follow you anywhere.. Riiiiight, they couldnt even climb ladders... And then there was of course, TRESPASSER, but that's all history now
Perhaps they're not lying all of the time, maybe the AI is dumbed down in the end because it eats too much CPU.. It'll be interesting to see if we FINALY will have good AI in a game, but i doubt it. |
Perhaps daikatana was a good game, but was dumbed down prior to release just because the world wasn't ready yet...
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 03:24 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | fisk wrote: | 90% of what you hear before final release is just stuff that is over-emphasized and hype. I don't know how many god-damned games that have said: "Amazing AI" prior to release and when the game is out, it's got really crappy AI that can do one thing right.
In the end, all that matters is how the game TRULY is, not what some guy with a paycheck from the developers say. |
I remember Bethesda bragging about the AI in Morrowind before it was released. They told different stories about funny happenings with the guards etc. I wasnt too impressed with the AI in MW But its the same with every game.. I also remember Valve bragging about how smart your companions would be in HL1 and that they would follow you anywhere.. Riiiiight, they couldnt even climb ladders... And then there was of course, TRESPASSER, but that's all history now
Perhaps they're not lying all of the time, maybe the AI is dumbed down in the end because it eats too much CPU.. It'll be interesting to see if we FINALY will have good AI in a game, but i doubt it. |
Speaking of AI, it is possible that one day, some kid will write a program that talks to you, learns and remembers. That will be a.i.
For now, it's more like
ai_response();
{
if(response>=2)
set "script_output" response 1;
else
set "script_output" response 2
}
exec_script
//sorry for the bad meta-code.
whereas true ai would be more like
ai_determination();
{
read_input(ai_input);
if (content) =! (known content)
exec learn()
else
retrieve_definitions
determine (most_beneficial_action);
exec (most_beneficial_action) if (random) =<25
else
exec (second_most_beneficial_action) if (random) =<25
....
....
....
}
exec_script
once again, sorry for the atrocious meta-code, but the point I am trying te get across is that so far, a.i. is simply a random choice between several equivalent variables, whereas intelligence involves "reasoning". Which we cannot make a computer execute. That's the direction we should be heading: smarter a.i. and not more choices. |
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 06:57 Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Accelleron but you are wrong. I'm learning Prolog and Smart system over 3 years now in college. What your saying is wrong. Today's AI is incrdibley smart, it can guess an object your thinking about only by asking 6 questions and it can guess ANYTHING. And after he will guess what you think, he will learn and next time he can answer only after 1-2 questions.
The random choice you talk about, doesn't exist in AI. He considers X situations and develops X ways to solve it, and then he takes the best situation to fit. For example: RTS games. The PC will try to find the best and fastest way to build a base, to create units as fast as it can and to find the shortest way to your base. It considers millions of choices, and takes the best one..not the random one.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 07:04 Post subject: |
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Generally i've noticed that AI in RTS games just seems to follow a set routine, and repeats that on every play through. The only difference being where the developers have altered it for certain maps.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 07:19 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Generally i've noticed that AI in RTS games just seems to follow a set routine, and repeats that on every play through. The only difference being where the developers have altered it for certain maps. |
I suppose that is the best path Clevesa was speaking of.
P.S. thanks for the clarification. My knowledge of A.I. is still in the 60's... |
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 07:23 Post subject: |
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| Accelleron wrote: |
I suppose that is the best path Clevesa was speaking of.
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In my opinion thats not smart at all, especially as you can set up a couple of towers in the area, and kill all the units that are sent thet way, yet still the AI repeats the same rountine over and over getting it's units killed.
It would be far more effective if it did make a random choice, rather then being 'smart' and picking the shortest (but by no means the best) route to your base.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 08:38 Post subject: |
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| AnimalMother wrote: | | Accelleron wrote: |
I suppose that is the best path Clevesa was speaking of.
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In my opinion thats not smart at all, especially as you can set up a couple of towers in the area, and kill all the units that are sent thet way, yet still the AI repeats the same rountine over and over getting it's units killed.
It would be far more effective if it did make a random choice, rather then being 'smart' and picking the shortest (but by no means the best) route to your base. |
Your understanding of AI is quite old. Take a new game, like AoE. If you played the game you will notice a very interesting thing. The enemy will attack the watch towers first, concentrating all it's power on them. After they are destroyed, he will bring more force in or will attack your barracks.Also, if you build towers in X place, the enemy will come from Y side. I have seen that happen alot in AoE.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 18:36 Post subject: |
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| Clevesa wrote: | | AnimalMother wrote: | | Accelleron wrote: |
I suppose that is the best path Clevesa was speaking of.
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In my opinion thats not smart at all, especially as you can set up a couple of towers in the area, and kill all the units that are sent thet way, yet still the AI repeats the same rountine over and over getting it's units killed.
It would be far more effective if it did make a random choice, rather then being 'smart' and picking the shortest (but by no means the best) route to your base. |
Your understanding of AI is quite old. Take a new game, like AoE. If you played the game you will notice a very interesting thing. The enemy will attack the watch towers first, concentrating all it's power on them. After they are destroyed, he will bring more force in or will attack your barracks.Also, if you build towers in X place, the enemy will come from Y side. I have seen that happen alot in AoE. |
Age of Empires?
Maybe thats just you seeing what you want to, rather the way it appears to me is that the AI just attacks the first structure it encounters, not that it 'concentrates' on watchtowers.
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| Posted: Sun, 9th Jan 2005 19:29 Post subject: |
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Not Age of Empires but Armies of Exigo.
Maybe so.
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razor1394
VIP Member
Posts: 3571
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 22nd Jan 2005 11:10 Post subject: |
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Baleur
Posts: 2343
Location: South Sweden
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razor1394
VIP Member
Posts: 3571
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 19th Feb 2005 00:47 Post subject: |
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